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Forums: Russian — French — English

Нere we discuss in English. But for other languages let us create special Community Portals. Dmitrismirnov 03:14, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

I agree. And what about other portals too (for instance : Poetry portal, XXth century portal, and so on) ? --Zephyrus 05:39, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
This would be useful in the future, but for now it is propably too early. We are too small group. Dmitrismirnov 10:58, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Contents

Confusion

I think to avoid a mash, it is necessary to stop mixing of Russian/English/French texts once and for all. Givi 10:45, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

I do not see a confusion. As we all know, from 24 July 2007 the default language become English here (fefor this it was French). I find convenient that pages on any other languages including Russian are accessible to everyone who has no special knowledge of Cyrillics alphabet. I think it is right condition if we are going to keep this site at the international level. It also would be good to know the opinion of Yann. Dmitrismirnov 11:21, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Mixing of texts in different languages is just not aesthetically. However, let's ask Yann at first. Givi 11:30, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Project logo

We need to change logo! The current logo is very-very stock. Who have proposals? Givi 11:51, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Accept Not-PD-US-URAA images here?

Hello to all! I am Jusjih as an administrator on 11 Wikimedia sites covering six types of Wiki projects. As there are uncertainties to images tagged with commons:Template:Not-PD-US-URAA I would like to request comments as to whether to accept them here provided they are PD in Canada. Even though Canada and the USA do not accept the rule of the shorter term, copyrighting for life + 50 years in Canada is much less lethal than in the USA.--Jusjih 22:07, 19 April 2008 (EDT) (admin on Wikimedia Commons, English and Chinese Wikisources, and more)

As far as I know, Canada accepts the rule of shorter term, so yes, Wikilivres accepts them. Yann 04:42, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
You mean subsection 9(2) of the Canadian Copyright Act, right? Even so, the rule of shorter term does not apply to North American Free Trade Agreement member states, so the USA and Mexican works would not apply. By the way, as Wikimedia Commons will not be able to legally or fairly have any galleries to host Not-PD-US-URAA images, I would like to propose allowing image galleries here to host them provided that they are PD in Canada. However, I consider that article name-space should not merely host image galleries as on Commons.--Jusjih 21:05, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
Yes, right. For US works, it doesn't matter much, as they can be hosted on Wikimedia projects (Commons and Wikisource), and Wikilivres doesn't want to duplicate these projects. Yann 00:24, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Images is another issue, mainly of ressources. Hosting a lot of images would quickly bring this server down, so I wouldn't advertise Wikilivres as a multimedia hosting site for now. Yann 00:27, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Hosting a lot of images would quickly bring this server down... Sorry, I didn't know this. This is why I uploaded so many images. You had to tell me this at the very beginning... I can take off some of them if you wish. Yours, Dmitri Dmitrismirnov 05:27, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Well, when I say many, I mean many like if we'd have thousands of images. Now we have 291 images, there are not so many yet. ;o) Hopefully we'll find later a solution for a bigger server, so we can have a lot of images. Yann 06:12, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
Then do not take them in bulk yet. I have posted at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_site_feedback#Foundation_licensing_policy_and_American_non-acceptance_of_the_rule_of_the_shorter_term where you are invited to see.--Jusjih 20:56, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

I was referred here by Jusjih on a thread in regards to images which are PD in Canada, but not in the US. Does Wikilivres have any plans to expand into the domain of images? Does anyone know of a site which does this? Would anyone here be interested in joining such a project? Padraic 10:44, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I am very eager to expand Wikilivres to other documents. However there are several issues to solve to accomplish that:
  1. Server capacity. The actual server cannot support an important increase of uploads and downloads (maybe not more than 3-4 times the actual rate). With images, this limit would be rapidely met.
  2. The name Wikilivres is not appriopriate for a multimedia hosting site.
This was already discussed at the English Wikisource. The best solution would be that the site to be taken over by Wikimedia Canada or another Canadian organisation. I would accept such a transfer if the organisation continues the project. Yann 13:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
Can you supply the link to where it was discussed at en.source? Padraic 18:18, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
Here it is en.ws:Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2008-04#Copyright_issues: what do we do next? Yann 02:39, 28 May 2008 (EDT)
Hopefully a Wikimedia chapter outside the USA, such as Wikimedia Canada, will host Not-PD-US-URAA images. As Padraic has said, Wikilivres is not very good to host them due to server limit and site name. As we accept CC-BY-NC but Wikimedia does not, I cannot expect Wikimedia Foundation to take over this site.--Jusjih 01:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I would like to suggest Wikimedia Foundation to be more aware of our concerns. If it keeps ignoring our concerns, I would like to suggest boycotting donations to it.--Jusjih 03:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I understand that the aims of WMF doesn't include lobbying for copyright changes, so that's why your petition is ignored. We have to find our own solutions, and that's why I started this site. Yann 07:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
WMF ignoring my petition is no problem while I am less and less caring about it. However, its ignoring the question as to the feasibility to open a non-American server is a major problem why Commons admins are reluctant to delete Not-PD-US-URAA images and I boycott donation. As ws:user:555, a Brazilian, has reported at ws:Wikisource:2008 that Portuguese Wikisource is to delete hundreds of pages due to American non-acceptance of the rule of the shorter term but we have no Portuguese page here, I am inviting him to tell his fellow users of this Canadian site.--Jusjih 01:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I installed a reverse proxy, so that a big part of the traffic is cached. I will also soon increase the capacity of the server. Wikilivres can now host quite a lot of images without performance issues. Yann 22:39, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

More localization

Hello, I think that Wikilivres:Demandes and Wikilivres:Prix littéraires could be translated and localized. It is probably better than having all requests and literary awards in one page. What do you think? Yann 00:39, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, this is reasonable and helpful. Dmitrismirnov 05:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
I started translating what the French title would mean. What does localization mean here anyway?--Jusjih 20:56, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
It adapting the page to the language, i.e. French prizes for French, British and American prizes for English, etc. Yann 03:44, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
Good idea, but the requests for new articles should be limited to those that can be hosted here but not Wikisource. Perhaps we should note this in English and French article request pages.--Jusjih 21:20, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
Yes, right. Yann 04:07, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Interlanguage links for multilingual licences

To reduce the need to post excessive multilingual licences in one page and modeled after Wikimedia Commons, I have decided to add interlanguage links to Template:DP-Canada, Template:DP-Canada-Auteur (no Russian found), and Template:DP-Canada-Traduction (French and Russian only).--Jusjih 22:01, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Excellent idea! Yann 09:54, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
However, I have found my way causing too many pages linked to licences in virtually all language versions. When I have time, I will check how Wikimedia Commons works.--Jusjih 03:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Never mind. What I have done is similar to what happens on Wikimedia Commons.--Jusjih 03:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

How to link to Meta and Wikiquote?

Are Commons: w: wikt: s: b: n: q: m: working properly? I have found linking to Wikimedia sites somewhat hard. I have not found how to link to Meta and Wikiquote.--Jusjih 03:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Milestone: 6000th page

Wikilivres has now 6000 pages.- --Zephyrus 10:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Gadget

Hello, With the gadget extension and some Javascript, headers can be preloaded when we open a page. This saves a lot of work. It already works fine for English texts. For other languages, we have to find a solution. A possibility is to add a "lang" tag to the "title" template. This is easy, but not completely satisfactory, and I could not find better for now. Another possibility would be to modify the script so that it can deal with templates in other languages. It might be complicated. Does someone want to try? Any other idea? See Help:Preloaded templates. Yann 15:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Localization

Hello, I added a bit more of localization. If you have any suggestions, please do. Yann 12:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Sergey completed with localized titles:

Add it here if you need more. Yann 13:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

It works very well. Sergey and Yann, congratulations!- --Zephyrus 06:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that my simple idea is accepted so cordially. ;-) -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I create Wikilivres:Localization to coordinate ours activities of Wikilivres localization. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 12:41, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Good job! Yann 13:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Chinese authors and works

As I have imported several Chinese works published since 1923 whose authors died in 1946 and later. They may not be fully in the public domain in the USA. For one author, I would like to ask which way to transliterate his name. English Wikipedia spells Tai Chi-tao based on Wade-Giles, but German Wikipedia spells Dai Jitao based on Hanyu Pinyin. This concerns whether to index him under D or T. Thanks.--Jusjih 03:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't help much with Chinese names. So choose a name as you prefer and make a redirect. Yann 10:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Pinyin is more widely use nowadays (and official in PRC) but old works are usually known under their old Wade-Giles name. As Yann say : choose the one you want and dont forget the redirection. VIGNERON * discut. 10:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I have redirected all these names: Chuang Tsu, Chuang Tzu, Zhuang Tze, Chouang-Dsi, Chuang Tse, Tchouang-tseu, Master Chuang, Zhuangzi, Zhuang Zhou, Tchoang-tzeu -Zhuāngzǐ, 莊子 / 庄子, Chuang-tzu, Zhuāngzhōu, 莊周 / 庄周). Dschuang Dsi, Tschuang-tse to Zhuang Zi. Please, correct the mistakes. Thanks!-Zephyrus 13:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. However, as Chinese users do not normally type "莊子 / 庄子" or "莊周 / 庄周" with mixed traditional and simplified Chinese, I have redirected 莊子, 庄子, 莊周, 庄周 to Zhuang Zi even though I seem to be the only active Chinese-speaking user here.--Jusjih 03:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Composers

Hello,

I created a page for composers, like for painters / architectes. Yann 16:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Good. I am adding a Chinese composer Zhang Hanhui that I have add'ed here. More will be added when I can think of. However, I just wonder if there is any standard way to write in the authors of lyrics and composers of melodies in the header.--Jusjih 01:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Non-commercial and non-derivative licenses

As we have the following non-commercial and non-derivative licenses rejected at the Wikimedia websites, I would like to ask one question. If any authors allow their copyrighted works to be used with non-commercial and/or non-derivative licenses without mentioning Creative Commons, may we accept their works here? Tag them CC with NC for non-commercial and with ND or SM for non-derivative? Or make new tags coded "non-commercial" and "non-derivative"?

--Jusjih 02:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, works with these licenses are accepted. Actually some of these templates are French. We need the same in English, and eventually in other languages. Yann 09:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I have made　CC-BY-ND in English, but I cannot find CC-SM or CC-ND from the Creative Commons website while Wikilivres:Copyrights should be amended to allow non-derivative licenses.--Jusjih 19:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

User style sheet config

Hello, I added the possibility for users to change the style sheet. You can create your own style sheet with [[User:<your account>/monobook.css‎]]. Yann 15:41, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Page Mode

I also finished the configuration of the Page Mode, as it works on Wikisource. Yann 10:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Japanese material allowed?

Hi there, I am a newly registerd member, speaking Japanese as mother tongue. Is Japanese content OK at Wikilivre? If yes, this site would be a possible resort for free licence contents rejected by Wikisource Japan. If accepted, I like to help build Japanese language pages of Wikilivres.--Nightingale 07:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Any language is allowed as long as the license is free or the copyright expired in Canada. So Japanese texts are most welcome. Yann 09:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your encouraging reply. --Nightingale 11:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
In case something is in the public domain in Japan but still subject to copyright dispute in the USA and thus legally unacceptable at Japanese Wikisource hosted in the USA, you are coming to a good alternate website hosted in Canada as Japan and Canada usually copyright for life plus 50 years until year end. However, as I have also designated this site as an alternate place for Chinese Wikisource, please note that a few Chinese and Japanese works have the same titles when written in Chinese hanzi or Japanese kanji. Should this happen, "xxx (中文)" for Chinese and "xxx (日本語)" for Japanese may disambiguate. When you start a Japanese home page, please tell us so we can link. In addition, please consider translating Wikilivres:Copyrights into Japanese so your fellow Japanese users know what this site allows: public domain in Canada, GFDL, CC-BY-SA, CC-BY-NC, CC-BY-NC-ND, CC-BY-NC-SA, CC-BY-ND, Art Libre, and works under copyright with the author's authorization. After all, welcome.--Jusjih 01:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Administrators' language skills

This is a multilingual site, so I just added administrators' language skills to Wikilivres:Administrators. My fellow administrators, please check if everything is correct as I gathered information based on your user pages and various administrator pages at various Wikimedia sites. Thanks.--Jusjih 03:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Wording of a license

Allowed licenses: beside the fact that there are some differences in the language translations of Wikilivres:Copyrights (also some differences on the main pages), I would like to know how I have to understand the wording of the English text "...and works under copyright with the author's authorization...". Does it mean

  • the author allowed the publication of the text for Wikilivres only;
  • the author gives the text into the public domain in general.

I think there is a difference. Regards, -jkb- 14:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It was meant "for Wikilivres only". Actually the only case is that of Lanza del Vasto where I have the permission from the copyright holders to publish some of his works, but there are not under a free license. Yann 15:47, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Aha, so it is an exceptional tag, and I do not have it in the general rule for licenses... Whenever somebody comes with something like that we can discus it. Thx, -jkb- 16:53, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. No need to have a license tag for that. Yann 17:52, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Another point. If you have here the same CC-BY-... licences as I know them :-), I would assume this: in all CC-BY-... licenses in Wikilivres:Localization#Templates there should be added something like "the author must be cited/named", shouldn't be? It is the meaning of the -BY- as far as I know.

When the authors allow us to publish their works here, even if non-commercial and non-derivative, we accept them subject to their restrictions. For example, The Internationale modern lyric is written and copyrighted by Billy Bragg with permission similar to CC-BY-NC while commercial users are asked to pay, thus tagged so with the exact copyright statement in the talk page. Unique permissions may be explained in the talk pages. Since we function like Wikisource to collect source texts, merely claiming "fair" use to post others' copyrighted whole works is not going to be "fair", especially for for-sale works.--Jusjih 01:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I guess I mean something else. See eg the wording "as long as you attribute its author(s) or licensor(s)" in the Commons version CC-BY here, CC-BY-SA ([1]) etc. or in the official wording. The CC licences are a composition of four abbreviations (i.e. conditions): attribution BY, noncommercial NC, no derivative works ND and share alike SA (identical licence). And, when you look at The Internationale (Bragg) so indeed there is the notice that only noncommercial use is allowed (NC), but there is no notice that the author must be attributed (BY) - although we do it, of course. -jkb- 11:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Kipling's copyright + tranlations

When I understand it so there are some works of Kipling that are not free although they are older than 70 years after his death. I have had no time to study this, probably they have been published first posthum etc. I see also that Levana Taylor is very busy in adding them here but also in making interwikies in many Wikisources. But a question: when a work is not free in the USA - what to do with a translation in Czech or other languages? Might be the translation is free (70 years after the death of the translator etc.), but not the original. Am I wrong when I would prefer to submit also the translations to this domain? Thanks, -jkb- 16:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

This site is hosted in Canada, so the original and translated works must be copyright-okay there, even if still copyright-restricted in home countries. As Canada does not have public domain for pre-1923 publication as in the USA, pre-1923 works still copyright-restricted at home are to be posted at Beta Wikisource if the specific Wikisource subdomain cannot accept them due to local concerns, which is the practice at Chinese, Czech, Japanese, and more Wikisources, but not this site if also copyright-restricted in Canada. Chinese Wikisource uses this site to bypass USA copyright problems, but Beta Wikisource to bypass Chinese and Canadian copyright problems.--Jusjih 03:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Kipling's works copied here are public domain in UK, but not in USA. That's why there are copied here and deleted in English Wikisource. Actually, a recent ruling may change that... groklaw.net arstechnica.com Commons Yann 15:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I will try to expalain my thoughts on this way:

  1. when I publish somewhere a translation of a work so both original and translation must be PD or free etc. (it is sometimes possible that the translation is PD but not the original)
  2. Kipling is PD in GB but not in the USA, therefore it must be deleted in the English Wikisource of the Wikimedia Foundation (and moved to here)
  3. we have some Czech translations of Kipling in the Czech Wikisource (and, possibly, in some other ones); the translation is PD
  4. the Czech Wikisource is hosted in the same server like the English Wikisource
  5. when Kipling (original) must be deleted in the English Wikisource because it is not PD, so I assume that the original is neither PD in the Czech Wikisource as it is the same server
  6. thus, if I am right, the Czech (or other) translations of Kipling must be moved from the Wikimedia Foundation Wikisources (to here)

This was the reason for my questioning. I am really not sure if i am right. Regards, -jkb- 15:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is right. But only Kipling's works published after 1922 are copyrighted in USA. Works published before 1923 are in the public domain world wide. This is also true for translations of these works, but you have also to take into account the translator's copyright. Regards, Yann 20:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Acrostics

I create Category:Acrostics to collect a acrostics. I invite you to add it for English, French etc. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Latex formulas

I'd like to include a scientific article by Max Planck which includes some Latex formulas. Bevore I start I want to ask whether the usage of Latex is a problem for this server. --D.H 16:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you can add Latex formulas here, no problem. Yann 22:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

What about old images

I'm not quite sure how to handle here the licence of old book covers, namely this one (Rim on the bottom). Published 1921, the editing house does not exist since probably about 60 years, author unknown. On Commons, I guess, it will be deleted because it is not 300 years old at least :-). What about here? Thanks. -jkb- 19:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Works from unknown authors more than 50 years old are OK here. Yann 10:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Trotsky's translator

There is a short text by Trotsky in Czech, from 1934, but I cannot find any data about the translator. He probably translated only this one essay and nothing more. I asked even in the National Library in Prague but without any result. Normaly it could be published 70 years after 1934, but what about here? -jkb- 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Today I have got an answer from the research dpt of the Czech National Library. They did not find the translator in any source so that they guess it is a pseudonym name choosen just for one translation. They even did not find the name in the list of persons who died 1954 to 1993. So I assume it is a pseudonymous translation, according to the § 6.1 of the Canadian Copyright Act PD 50 years after it has been published, i.e. PD since 2005. -jkb- 08:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Canadian Copyright Law is 404

Hi. The URL address of the canadian Copyright law as given in the main pages here etc. has obviously been changed - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33308 gives "The page cannot be found". Probably we have to change it for http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/c-42//20090623/en or http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/c-42//20090623/fr or something similar. -jkb- 07:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I changed it in all main pages, -jkb- 08:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Russian texts of Trotsky et al

Hi. I have at home the reprint of the Bulletin of the Opposition edited by Trotsky 1929 to 1941 in Russian, reprinted photomechanically by Monad Press / Pathfinder Press 1973, vol. I to IV, partly illustrated (very thick, complete). See commons:File:BulOpp 001.jpg. The most articles are by Trotsky, but also by some others. As Trotsky (and might be some other ones as well) is PD here, I suggest we could think about digitalizing it, which would be a huge work anyway. If there is an iterest we can discuss it and the problems here. Regards, -jkb- 14:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

http://web.mit.edu/people/fjk/BO/BO-01.html - here is the internet publication of this material. We can copy it here in wikilivres. It is not difficult. --Dmitrismirnov 23:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. I will have to learn the google search with my pseudo-russian keyboard. I did not know this site. Well, in this case it doesn't seem to be that urgent. -jkb- 07:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Minor languages

As I just found 3 Hindi pages and added 1 Maori page, I just linked to the categories of these two "minor" languages from the English Main Page. I would like to ask what the language links in main pages should really show:

  1. Language names based on which main page, like English names in English Main Page (now used)
  2. Language names based on their native scripts
  3. ISO 639 codes

--Jusjih 23:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The basic question is if we want "politically correct" links or understandable links. Language names based on the native script are politically corect, but just like ISO codes not understandable for all (on the oldwikisource sometimes I do not know what I see on my monitor - the category does not help). English names are understandable for the most people I guess. So, when we use the native names or ISO we should have somewhere a short table with explanations. Or we use English. -jkb- 07:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be friendly to all of us if the names on the author's pages of Chinese, Chech and other authors would be properly transcribed here in English.
By the way I am out for at least 10 days for Menorca's Holidays. All the best! --Dmitrismirnov 21:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I think we can have both: f.e. French (français). Yann 10:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

"Minor Albanian"

One more again we have a new copyvio on the Oldwikisource, a text by Gjergj Fishta, see also there the discussions from the beginning of this year. The Text will be PD 2011. I am like to import these text to here, and I will take care of them a bit. Another question is to invite the Albanian colleagues to collaborate here. First, Yann did so and there was no response, secondly, they seem to be totally without knowledges about copyrights etc., I remember some more difficult talks. Anyway I will import something in the next days and we shall see. -jkb- 15:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

See also ws:User talk:Bresta, -jkb- 06:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Title templates and more authors

I have just seen the problems here and I wonder if it is the first case like this. I see two sollutions

  • to specify a new parametre Author2 in the template that could be user in the same way as Author
  • or/and to specify a new parametre MoreAuthors (or something like that) for the case there will be more than two authors

The second one I made in the Czech Wikisource, see here (we have both Author2 and also AUTOR BEZ ODKAZU). The Use of it was different: in the second parametre it is necessary to include the author like [[XY]] with brackets, but it is possible to include more authors or also authors like [[XY et al]], [[XY (1901-1960)|XY]] etc. The categories must be made manually. Examples see here, I can translate it.
There is one point I am not sure about: to add a new parametre to a multilanguage template should be done by somebody who knows it better than me. Greetings, -jkb- 07:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This already exists in {{title}}: the parameter is "override_author". I think it would be better to have one template only, and to make it more multilingual. This way we don't have to copy specific features to all templates in all languages. Yann 10:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh. I have seen the parametre and I was wondering what it is. So nice. But, obviously when this parametre is included in the code, even if it is empty, it suppresses the author. See User:-jkb-/Little sandy castle. Necessary to know. Thanks a lot, -jkb- 10:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it should be added only when needed. Example: Albert Einstein and Rabindranath Tagore Talk. Yann 10:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Orphan and deadend pages

Hello, Could you please have a look at Orphan and Deadend pages. See the difference between [2] and 10,244 ({{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}). There are about 100 pages which are not counted because they lack a link. Thanks, Yann 10:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I did some ones. But, by the way, are you sure it is the reason for the difference? As far as I have read an explanation somewhere, even orphan and deadend pages should be counted if the have a category. This was a software change say in approx 2007. Regards -jkb- 11:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Some are anonymous, pseudonymous, or organizational works. How to link to and from these works?--Jusjih 03:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
If the category is added manually (not via a template), the page is not included in deadend. So each page should get a category. Yann 09:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned pages are were:

Now they are linked to at least, see Orphan. -jkb- 07:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Canadian copyright protection of lectures

Searching for the Canadian copyright protection of lectures, I just found that Section 32.2 of the Canadian Copyright Act says:

32.2 (1) It is not an infringement of copyright
(c) for any person to make or publish, for the purposes of news reporting or news summary, a report of a lecture given in public, unless the report is prohibited by conspicuous written or printed notice affixed before and maintained during the lecture at or about the main entrance of the building in which the lecture is given, and, except while the building is being used for public worship, in a position near the lecturer;
(e) for any person to make or publish, for the purposes of news reporting or news summary, a report of an address of a political nature given at a public meeting.

As Section 2 of the same Act defines "lecture" to include address, speech and sermon, perhaps Section 32.2 of the Canadian Copyright Act further justifies us to host works covered by Template:PD-manifesto? After all, as Chinese Wikisource sees likely abuse of PD-manifesto, I hereby raise this question while some Chinese speeches may be brought here after discussion there to discourage abuse there.--Jusjih 17:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think that 32.2 is the reason why we can host texts under {{PD-manifesto}}. Regards, Yann 18:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I have moved the license to {{Manifesto}} while not necessarily in the public and rewritten it to show the Canadian legal permission to post here. Incomplete French and Chinese translations are also made. I will ask Chinese and English Wikisources to consider moving this type of works here as assumed public domain is not fully compatible with CC-BY-SA-3.0 or GFDL.--Jusjih 20:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
As I leave for some days so FYI: before I could announce this there has been a reaction on the matter. There are similar wordings in the Czech law, but - IANAL - I cannot judge if it is similar or the same. Nevertheless, since the cs.source denied to use this possibility here in any case (see the modifications discussed in en.source, see the problematics of the so called "news media"...) I consider it closed discussion. Regards, -jkb- 14:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
As mentioned by Eclecticology in the discussion, not all speeches can be published here. I think there needs to be a clear intend by the author that the speech is a manifesto, which is not always the case. Yann 12:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
So is the description in Template:Manifesto okay for us right here? Maybe we should also mention relevant Canadian fair dealing article? I know that not all speeches are covered. They must have been given in the public to be covered. I need a clear consensus here as Chinese and English Wikisources are abolishing assumed PD-manifesto while causing excessive abuses. Each PD-manifesto work there will be case-by-case evaluated.--Jusjih 03:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to precise the question as it seems to be a difficult matter.
  • Point one is the place it was published: what meens "public"? A speech given in the public, or a written text publisdhed publicly (like in a great newspaper) as well?
  • Point two: what is a "clear intend of the author that the speech/work is a manifesto"?
  • Point three: even if we think 1 + 2 are fullfilled - can we publish the whole speech/work or can we cite it only? (see the mentioned discussion on en.ws)
  • Point four: when it should turn out that a citation is possible (not the whole work), we should decide if we are open for citations (most Wikisources are not as far as I know). (By a citation a mean a fragment / a part of a document that has not been published before as a standalone text; if it was published like this so it is not a ciatation in our sense but a normal document.)
Regards -jkb- 16:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Links to here and elsewhere

A report. Before I left for my holidays I made in the Czech Wikipedia and Wikisource some links to the author page of Josef Svatopluk Machar here. After I have come back I found some unpleasant discussions on this. On a page of the Wikimedia Czech Republic [3] some admins of Wikizdroje/Wikilivres are discussing it. They argue that the edits on WL coulde proove to be not legal, partly because in fact it is a domain of a provider from Arizona (whoisinfo), this could be dangerous for Czech or other non-canadian citizens when participating, the domain works aggressive and it is not clear if the copyright laws are abused or not, more over, because it is an evasion of the Czech law it could also harm to the Czech Wikimedia project at whole (even the lost of sponsors is possible), in one word: the matter will be prooved by a juridical consulting bureau, but it is better not to participate with and not to link to Wikilivres at all. In the same time on the Czech WS has been started a discussion about links to the "Wikisource incubator" (yes, the address is wikisource.org) [4] with the goal no link to it (probably they mean texts with the PD-US-1923) because incubators are mostly one man project and thus untrustworthy or even illegal.
It is difficult for me to comment these development as it seems to me that factual reasons cannot be the only ones here (I personally presume fully different reasons; not only because some of the users are registered here and also on the Oldwikisource and they are informed). So my work here and on the oldwikisource will continue as usual but without the linking to here from the Czech projects (I reverted there all my related edits to avoid edit wars etc.; links from the German Wikipedia are OK). -jkb- 21:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello, There are some misunderstandings of what copyright law is about. It is for each individual to check if the document is copyrighted in his own country. For that some information is provided indicating if it is not copyrighted in Canada only or in other countries as well. This has nothing to do with where the domain is registered, which is totally irrelevant to copyright. Anyway I think that simply reading online or downloading a copyrighted document is not a crime in most cases. The responsibility is on who is publishing it. Wikilivres will always respect the participants' privacy, and will never disclose any information about them to the authorities. If a document cannot be published under Canadian law, it will simply be deleted. Regards, Yann 12:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I have heard of no complaints on Chinese Wikisource about linking to old Wikisource for pre-1923 Chinese works still copyright-restricted in Greater China or linking to pages right here for Chinese works whose authors died since 1946. I cannot bother whatever happens to Czech wikis as I am generally fine with how Chinese Wikisource works.--Jusjih 04:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, misunderstanding. The users who discus this are long term users, admins, partly functionaries of the Wikimedia section. Since years they define the licence policy in the Czech projects and they must know what are they discussing about. Therefore - as I stated above - I presume other reasons for the rejection of linking to or even cooperation with the WL (or Oldwikisource). I just do not agree with the argument that - when I am publishing a text on WL that is PD according to the Canadian Copyright Act - I make a crime handling according to the Czech Copyright Law. The same could be said about the English Wikipedia which allows fair use. Fair use is not allowed in the Czech Copyright Law - so participation in or linking to English Wikipedia would be criminal... Nonsence. (to Jusjih: yes, I designed similar templates like this or 1923, but they are not welcome so I deleted them). No comment more. Regards -jkb- 16:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

URL of the Canadian copyright law

In June or July 2009 I changed the URLs of the page with the Canadian copyright law (that we need for the main pages) as the old one was an error 404. Now the present URL is 404 as well (both English and French). Does somebody know a stable URL of the page? Would be nice. Thanks, -jkb- 01:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I have found the URL http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Statute/C/C-42.pdf, it is bilingual, for the first it couzld be used. -jkb- 08:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I changed the URL on all main pages. Another solution would be linking to en.ws:Copyright Act of Canada. Yann 12:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, better, if possible, is a link to the original (where we can expect some updates). But the link to en.ws could proof to be more stable, indeed. However, I think we should have the same source in all main pages (and also the copyrights pages that I have changed as well with the pdf link).

Allowing IPs to edit deletion requests?

I would like to ask if we can exceptionally allow IPs to edit Wikilivres:Possible_copyright_violations and Wikilivres:Delete without usernames. If impossible, I am proposing at English and Chinese Wikisources to allow remote control and discussion of English and Chinese texts to be deleted, as PD-manifesto works are being removed there and some will be brought here.--Jusjih 03:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Well I don't mind about Wikilivres:Possible_copyright_violations. But what is the sense of Wikilivres:Delete? We have a Template:Delete which includes the Category:Deletion requests. Is it not enough? -jkb- 16:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Wikilivres:Delete is to ask deleting anything other than for copyright reasons.--Jusjih 02:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
The whole site is not editable by IP because of several bot attacks. I think it is simple enough to create an account (no email required). Yann 13:14, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
OK. An acount creation is really not quite difficult. -jkb- 18:47, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I started en.ws:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Remote_nomination_of_English_texts_at_Canadian_Wikilivres about remote control of English pages here, but without consensus. I will ask Chinese Wikisource soon as there are extremely limited Chinese users here.--Jusjih 04:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Language-specific copyright license tags

As I hear no major complaints against English {{Manifesto}}, French {{Manifeste}}, or Chinese {{宣言}} while I cannot bother how Czech speakers react so much, I would like to ask about the uses of language-specific copyright license tags. While tagging Chinese manifestos, I prefer to use the Chinese tag already linking to English and French versions, but without tags in other languages. My opinions are that:

  1. Works should be tagged based on which languages they are written. When interlanguage links are present, other language tags are not readily needed. I cannot read Czech, German, Russian, or Spanish, but I can follow the interlanguage links to see what the tags mean.
  2. Author pages should be tagged based on which languages they are or were mostly associated with. For example, I would like to tag Chinese authors with Chinese tags only, unless they also speak certain other languages.

My opinions are to reduce excessive transclusions of language-specific tags, i.e. quality but not quantity. What are your opinions?--Jusjih 04:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I am not sure if I understand the problem. If your PC's preferences are Chinese, you will get the Chinese text. I would like to see it Czech, English or German, naturally. And, if somebody edit the page with the preference in Ki-Svahili, he will get it English. Then we can chose the language in the small interwiki tags on the bottom of every template. Everybody should be happy as he undersands what the template is saying.
The other problem is that one with translations. This concerns both text pages and author pages. We have a lot of translations here and of authors having been translated. What language will you choose? My language preference here is Czech. Well when I see the page like Комментарий к Блейку/Песни опыта/Песня няни I don't minde the language as I can understand English and Russian as well, more or less. But somebody who can not understand both: which template will he get?
For the first, regards, -jkb- 17:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
As of now the language-specific copyright license tags do not automatically switch to what users prefer as on Wikimedia Commons. Since this is a multilingual site to primarily host source texts, there are many texts that we do not understand, e.g., I understand no Czech, German, Russian, or Spanish. Therefore, using the tag in a language corresponding to the texts and authors may be the best way for now unless a better thought is available. For you scenario if someone can read neither English nor Russian, the Creative Commons symbols might help, so I am adding Chinese descriptions to more images here. Many tags here have language links like on Wikimedia Commons. Finally, is {{Manifesto-cs}} to be used or not? I replaced maybe-public-domain symbols in other three language versions with black copyright symbols.--Jusjih 02:48, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Hm. I did not recognize this. Every time I create a new switchable multilingual template I try to see if it works and I make some treatments with English or German Interface. And it worked in those cases i.e. it switched automatically. But anyway, I suppose there are those small language interwikis on the bottom of each licence template so tat it should be possible to switch manually should not be? Or is it something else that doesn't work? Regards, -jkb- 18:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Commons images ...

.. do not work on Wikilivres the whole day. Any serious reason? -jkb- 14:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Since yesterday evening OK. -jkb- 12:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

New parameter for year in Template:Header

Modeled after Chinese and English Wikisources I just added a new parameter for the year of a work in Template:Header in gray color with automated category. I have not internationalized the display in the header, but our year categories in Indo-Arabic numerals are already language-independent, such as Category:1950 for works in 1950.--Jusjih 03:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I also wonder why we have separate Template:Title with similar purpose.--Jusjih 03:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
As I can see the Template:Title is being used (and I do it as well) for single works or for a collections (where the book has more parts - chapters, poems etc.), and this page contrains something like a content, while Template:Header is something like navigation template for those single parts. See e.g. The Odes and The Odes/Book III/13. -jkb- 10:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the point to have 2 different templates is to be able to count individual works. Yann 13:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Here is more complicated case: two different years for publication of original and translation: The Captive/Chapter I.2 what to be preferred? Dmitrismirnov 01:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I think both dates should be mentioned in the notes, that's why a single date parameter doesn't cover all cases. Yann 11:30, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, ack, and the date when it will be PD in the country of origin is also interesting etc. But when we insert all this into the template (which should enable simple navigation) we will make it too complicated. It is better to mention such points either in the parametre note or, as I do, on the bottom of the main page like e.g. here: Slezské písně#bottom (and of course to link to it from all parts of the book). Here it is possible to include more informations like about the first edition, PD since..., source, etc. etc. -jkb- 12:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

X

A merry X-mas to all who celebrate it, and merry days to all who do not. Reghards, -jkb- 10:17, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Registration error

Hello,

Not sure if it's the right place to report that bug, but I just registered… registration and login were successful, and I got the following error on page [5]: 

Could not send confirmation mail. Check address for invalid characters.
Mailer returned: error_log(/var/log/apache2/wikilivres.info-debug_log): failed to open stream: Permission denied

My email address contains only lowercase letters, two points and the @ sign. I double-checked with the back button, and it is truly valid.

Have an happy new year,

Calimo 16:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

By the way, I did get the email all right (it was just a little bit slow to come) and the activation was successful! Calimo 16:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
So OK now? Good luck here and a Happy New Year, -jkb- 16:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes I think so, yet someone may want to investigate it, so that future users don't get scared? (I wasn't scared, just surprised to get an error when all the rest was OK… but other users may be frightened, mayn't they?)
Have a happy new year! Calimo 17:40, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeces

I have created two index-pages: Index:Sværmerer.djvu and Index:I Æventyrland.djvu. For both of these I use the <pagelist />-tag, and it yields a pagelist, but when I click any of the individual pages, I don't see the page. What is wrong? V85 13:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

This bug is known if not understood. You can try this: create files for each page, like [[File:Sværmerer.djvu|page=1|570px]] and when you preview it you see the image. Does it work for you? Not very satisfactory but better than nothing. --Zephyrus 17:47, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Automated copyright licenses

As I have made automated copyright licenses on Chinese and English Wikisources and Wikimedia Commons, I am bringing Template:PD-posthumous from English Wikisource soon after importing a few posthumous works in the Canadian but not American public domain. Next, I would like to automate copyright licenses based on how many years authors have died, but Canada does not need distinction of en.ws:Template:Pd/1923 and en.ws:Template:Pd/1996 as in the USA.--Jusjih 04:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Footnotes as tooltip

On the Oldwikisource I have installed a small script from the it.wikipedia.org which causes that the text of references/footnotes appears like a tooltip when you show on the reference number by the mouse. Should we have it here as well? -jkb- 16:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, why not? Yann 17:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, well I did. In fact as far as I can see this script is OK and has no negative effects. An example see e.g. Satiricon/1. 1902-1903 (3) - three footnotes. Just show on the footnote numbers in the text with the mouse and the text of the footnote will apear as a tooltip. -jkb- 18:06, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

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