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Composers

Hello,

I created a page for composers, like for painters / architectes. Yann 16:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Good. I am adding a Chinese composer Zhang Hanhui that I have add'ed here. More will be added when I can think of. However, I just wonder if there is any standard way to write in the authors of lyrics and composers of melodies in the header.--Jusjih 01:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Non-commercial and non-derivative licenses

As we have the following non-commercial and non-derivative licenses rejected at the Wikimedia websites, I would like to ask one question. If any authors allow their copyrighted works to be used with non-commercial and/or non-derivative licenses without mentioning Creative Commons, may we accept their works here? Tag them CC with NC for non-commercial and with ND or SM for non-derivative? Or make new tags coded "non-commercial" and "non-derivative"?

--Jusjih 02:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, works with these licenses are accepted. Actually some of these templates are French. We need the same in English, and eventually in other languages. Yann 09:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I have made　CC-BY-ND in English, but I cannot find CC-SM or CC-ND from the Creative Commons website while Wikilivres:Copyrights should be amended to allow non-derivative licenses.--Jusjih 19:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

User style sheet config

Hello, I added the possibility for users to change the style sheet. You can create your own style sheet with [[User:<your account>/monobook.css‎]]. Yann 15:41, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Page Mode

I also finished the configuration of the Page Mode, as it works on Wikisource. Yann 10:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Japanese material allowed?

Hi there, I am a newly registerd member, speaking Japanese as mother tongue. Is Japanese content OK at Wikilivre? If yes, this site would be a possible resort for free licence contents rejected by Wikisource Japan. If accepted, I like to help build Japanese language pages of Wikilivres.--Nightingale 07:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Any language is allowed as long as the license is free or the copyright expired in Canada. So Japanese texts are most welcome. Yann 09:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your encouraging reply. --Nightingale 11:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
In case something is in the public domain in Japan but still subject to copyright dispute in the USA and thus legally unacceptable at Japanese Wikisource hosted in the USA, you are coming to a good alternate website hosted in Canada as Japan and Canada usually copyright for life plus 50 years until year end. However, as I have also designated this site as an alternate place for Chinese Wikisource, please note that a few Chinese and Japanese works have the same titles when written in Chinese hanzi or Japanese kanji. Should this happen, "xxx (中文)" for Chinese and "xxx (日本語)" for Japanese may disambiguate. When you start a Japanese home page, please tell us so we can link. In addition, please consider translating Wikilivres:Copyrights into Japanese so your fellow Japanese users know what this site allows: public domain in Canada, GFDL, CC-BY-SA, CC-BY-NC, CC-BY-NC-ND, CC-BY-NC-SA, CC-BY-ND, Art Libre, and works under copyright with the author's authorization. After all, welcome.--Jusjih 01:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Administrators' language skills

This is a multilingual site, so I just added administrators' language skills to Wikilivres:Administrators. My fellow administrators, please check if everything is correct as I gathered information based on your user pages and various administrator pages at various Wikimedia sites. Thanks.--Jusjih 03:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Wording of a license

Allowed licenses: beside the fact that there are some differences in the language translations of Wikilivres:Copyrights (also some differences on the main pages), I would like to know how I have to understand the wording of the English text "...and works under copyright with the author's authorization...". Does it mean

  • the author allowed the publication of the text for Wikilivres only;
  • the author gives the text into the public domain in general.

I think there is a difference. Regards, -jkb- 14:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It was meant "for Wikilivres only". Actually the only case is that of Lanza del Vasto where I have the permission from the copyright holders to publish some of his works, but there are not under a free license. Yann 15:47, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Aha, so it is an exceptional tag, and I do not have it in the general rule for licenses... Whenever somebody comes with something like that we can discus it. Thx, -jkb- 16:53, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. No need to have a license tag for that. Yann 17:52, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Another point. If you have here the same CC-BY-... licences as I know them :-), I would assume this: in all CC-BY-... licenses in Wikilivres:Localization#Templates there should be added something like "the author must be cited/named", shouldn't be? It is the meaning of the -BY- as far as I know.

When the authors allow us to publish their works here, even if non-commercial and non-derivative, we accept them subject to their restrictions. For example, The Internationale modern lyric is written and copyrighted by Billy Bragg with permission similar to CC-BY-NC while commercial users are asked to pay, thus tagged so with the exact copyright statement in the talk page. Unique permissions may be explained in the talk pages. Since we function like Wikisource to collect source texts, merely claiming "fair" use to post others' copyrighted whole works is not going to be "fair", especially for for-sale works.--Jusjih 01:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I guess I mean something else. See eg the wording "as long as you attribute its author(s) or licensor(s)" in the Commons version CC-BY here, CC-BY-SA ([1]) etc. or in the official wording. The CC licences are a composition of four abbreviations (i.e. conditions): attribution BY, noncommercial NC, no derivative works ND and share alike SA (identical licence). And, when you look at The Internationale (Bragg) so indeed there is the notice that only noncommercial use is allowed (NC), but there is no notice that the author must be attributed (BY) - although we do it, of course. -jkb- 11:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Kipling's copyright + tranlations

When I understand it so there are some works of Kipling that are not free although they are older than 70 years after his death. I have had no time to study this, probably they have been published first posthum etc. I see also that Levana Taylor is very busy in adding them here but also in making interwikies in many Wikisources. But a question: when a work is not free in the USA - what to do with a translation in Czech or other languages? Might be the translation is free (70 years after the death of the translator etc.), but not the original. Am I wrong when I would prefer to submit also the translations to this domain? Thanks, -jkb- 16:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

This site is hosted in Canada, so the original and translated works must be copyright-okay there, even if still copyright-restricted in home countries. As Canada does not have public domain for pre-1923 publication as in the USA, pre-1923 works still copyright-restricted at home are to be posted at Beta Wikisource if the specific Wikisource subdomain cannot accept them due to local concerns, which is the practice at Chinese, Czech, Japanese, and more Wikisources, but not this site if also copyright-restricted in Canada. Chinese Wikisource uses this site to bypass USA copyright problems, but Beta Wikisource to bypass Chinese and Canadian copyright problems.--Jusjih 03:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Kipling's works copied here are public domain in UK, but not in USA. That's why there are copied here and deleted in English Wikisource. Actually, a recent ruling may change that... groklaw.net arstechnica.com Commons Yann 15:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I will try to expalain my thoughts on this way:

  1. when I publish somewhere a translation of a work so both original and translation must be PD or free etc. (it is sometimes possible that the translation is PD but not the original)
  2. Kipling is PD in GB but not in the USA, therefore it must be deleted in the English Wikisource of the Wikimedia Foundation (and moved to here)
  3. we have some Czech translations of Kipling in the Czech Wikisource (and, possibly, in some other ones); the translation is PD
  4. the Czech Wikisource is hosted in the same server like the English Wikisource
  5. when Kipling (original) must be deleted in the English Wikisource because it is not PD, so I assume that the original is neither PD in the Czech Wikisource as it is the same server
  6. thus, if I am right, the Czech (or other) translations of Kipling must be moved from the Wikimedia Foundation Wikisources (to here)

This was the reason for my questioning. I am really not sure if i am right. Regards, -jkb- 15:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is right. But only Kipling's works published after 1922 are copyrighted in USA. Works published before 1923 are in the public domain world wide. This is also true for translations of these works, but you have also to take into account the translator's copyright. Regards, Yann 20:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Acrostics

I create Category:Acrostics to collect a acrostics. I invite you to add it for English, French etc. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Latex formulas

I'd like to include a scientific article by Max Planck which includes some Latex formulas. Bevore I start I want to ask whether the usage of Latex is a problem for this server. --D.H 16:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you can add Latex formulas here, no problem. Yann 22:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

What about old images

I'm not quite sure how to handle here the licence of old book covers, namely this one (Rim on the bottom). Published 1921, the editing house does not exist since probably about 60 years, author unknown. On Commons, I guess, it will be deleted because it is not 300 years old at least :-). What about here? Thanks. -jkb- 19:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Works from unknown authors more than 50 years old are OK here. Yann 10:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Trotsky's translator

There is a short text by Trotsky in Czech, from 1934, but I cannot find any data about the translator. He probably translated only this one essay and nothing more. I asked even in the National Library in Prague but without any result. Normaly it could be published 70 years after 1934, but what about here? -jkb- 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Today I have got an answer from the research dpt of the Czech National Library. They did not find the translator in any source so that they guess it is a pseudonym name choosen just for one translation. They even did not find the name in the list of persons who died 1954 to 1993. So I assume it is a pseudonymous translation, according to the § 6.1 of the Canadian Copyright Act PD 50 years after it has been published, i.e. PD since 2005. -jkb- 08:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Canadian Copyright Law is 404

Hi. The URL address of the canadian Copyright law as given in the main pages here etc. has obviously been changed - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33308 gives "The page cannot be found". Probably we have to change it for http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/c-42//20090623/en or http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/c-42//20090623/fr or something similar. -jkb- 07:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I changed it in all main pages, -jkb- 08:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Russian texts of Trotsky et al

Hi. I have at home the reprint of the Bulletin of the Opposition edited by Trotsky 1929 to 1941 in Russian, reprinted photomechanically by Monad Press / Pathfinder Press 1973, vol. I to IV, partly illustrated (very thick, complete). See commons:File:BulOpp 001.jpg. The most articles are by Trotsky, but also by some others. As Trotsky (and might be some other ones as well) is PD here, I suggest we could think about digitalizing it, which would be a huge work anyway. If there is an iterest we can discuss it and the problems here. Regards, -jkb- 14:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

http://web.mit.edu/people/fjk/BO/BO-01.html - here is the internet publication of this material. We can copy it here in wikilivres. It is not difficult. --Dmitrismirnov 23:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. I will have to learn the google search with my pseudo-russian keyboard. I did not know this site. Well, in this case it doesn't seem to be that urgent. -jkb- 07:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Minor languages

As I just found 3 Hindi pages and added 1 Maori page, I just linked to the categories of these two "minor" languages from the English Main Page. I would like to ask what the language links in main pages should really show:

  1. Language names based on which main page, like English names in English Main Page (now used)
  2. Language names based on their native scripts
  3. ISO 639 codes

--Jusjih 23:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The basic question is if we want "politically correct" links or understandable links. Language names based on the native script are politically corect, but just like ISO codes not understandable for all (on the oldwikisource sometimes I do not know what I see on my monitor - the category does not help). English names are understandable for the most people I guess. So, when we use the native names or ISO we should have somewhere a short table with explanations. Or we use English. -jkb- 07:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be friendly to all of us if the names on the author's pages of Chinese, Chech and other authors would be properly transcribed here in English.
By the way I am out for at least 10 days for Menorca's Holidays. All the best! --Dmitrismirnov 21:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I think we can have both: f.e. French (français). Yann 10:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

"Minor Albanian"

One more again we have a new copyvio on the Oldwikisource, a text by Gjergj Fishta, see also there the discussions from the beginning of this year. The Text will be PD 2011. I am like to import these text to here, and I will take care of them a bit. Another question is to invite the Albanian colleagues to collaborate here. First, Yann did so and there was no response, secondly, they seem to be totally without knowledges about copyrights etc., I remember some more difficult talks. Anyway I will import something in the next days and we shall see. -jkb- 15:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

See also ws:User talk:Bresta, -jkb- 06:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Title templates and more authors

I have just seen the problems here and I wonder if it is the first case like this. I see two sollutions

  • to specify a new parametre Author2 in the template that could be user in the same way as Author
  • or/and to specify a new parametre MoreAuthors (or something like that) for the case there will be more than two authors

The second one I made in the Czech Wikisource, see here (we have both Author2 and also AUTOR BEZ ODKAZU). The Use of it was different: in the second parametre it is necessary to include the author like [[XY]] with brackets, but it is possible to include more authors or also authors like [[XY et al]], [[XY (1901-1960)|XY]] etc. The categories must be made manually. Examples see here, I can translate it.
There is one point I am not sure about: to add a new parametre to a multilanguage template should be done by somebody who knows it better than me. Greetings, -jkb- 07:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This already exists in {{title}}: the parameter is "override_author". I think it would be better to have one template only, and to make it more multilingual. This way we don't have to copy specific features to all templates in all languages. Yann 10:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh. I have seen the parametre and I was wondering what it is. So nice. But, obviously when this parametre is included in the code, even if it is empty, it suppresses the author. See User:-jkb-/Little sandy castle. Necessary to know. Thanks a lot, -jkb- 10:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it should be added only when needed. Example: Albert Einstein and Rabindranath Tagore Talk. Yann 10:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Orphan and deadend pages

Hello, Could you please have a look at Orphan and Deadend pages. See the difference between [2] and 14,224 ({{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}). There are about 100 pages which are not counted because they lack a link. Thanks, Yann 10:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I did some ones. But, by the way, are you sure it is the reason for the difference? As far as I have read an explanation somewhere, even orphan and deadend pages should be counted if the have a category. This was a software change say in approx 2007. Regards -jkb- 11:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Some are anonymous, pseudonymous, or organizational works. How to link to and from these works?--Jusjih 03:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
If the category is added manually (not via a template), the page is not included in deadend. So each page should get a category. Yann 09:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned pages are were:

Now they are linked to at least, see Orphan. -jkb- 07:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Canadian copyright protection of lectures

Searching for the Canadian copyright protection of lectures, I just found that Section 32.2 of the Canadian Copyright Act says:

32.2 (1) It is not an infringement of copyright
(c) for any person to make or publish, for the purposes of news reporting or news summary, a report of a lecture given in public, unless the report is prohibited by conspicuous written or printed notice affixed before and maintained during the lecture at or about the main entrance of the building in which the lecture is given, and, except while the building is being used for public worship, in a position near the lecturer;
(e) for any person to make or publish, for the purposes of news reporting or news summary, a report of an address of a political nature given at a public meeting.

As Section 2 of the same Act defines "lecture" to include address, speech and sermon, perhaps Section 32.2 of the Canadian Copyright Act further justifies us to host works covered by Template:PD-manifesto? After all, as Chinese Wikisource sees likely abuse of PD-manifesto, I hereby raise this question while some Chinese speeches may be brought here after discussion there to discourage abuse there.--Jusjih 17:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think that 32.2 is the reason why we can host texts under {{PD-manifesto}}. Regards, Yann 18:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I have moved the license to {{Manifesto}} while not necessarily in the public and rewritten it to show the Canadian legal permission to post here. Incomplete French and Chinese translations are also made. I will ask Chinese and English Wikisources to consider moving this type of works here as assumed public domain is not fully compatible with CC-BY-SA-3.0 or GFDL.--Jusjih 20:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
As I leave for some days so FYI: before I could announce this there has been a reaction on the matter. There are similar wordings in the Czech law, but - IANAL - I cannot judge if it is similar or the same. Nevertheless, since the cs.source denied to use this possibility here in any case (see the modifications discussed in en.source, see the problematics of the so called "news media"...) I consider it closed discussion. Regards, -jkb- 14:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
As mentioned by Eclecticology in the discussion, not all speeches can be published here. I think there needs to be a clear intend by the author that the speech is a manifesto, which is not always the case. Yann 12:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
So is the description in Template:Manifesto okay for us right here? Maybe we should also mention relevant Canadian fair dealing article? I know that not all speeches are covered. They must have been given in the public to be covered. I need a clear consensus here as Chinese and English Wikisources are abolishing assumed PD-manifesto while causing excessive abuses. Each PD-manifesto work there will be case-by-case evaluated.--Jusjih 03:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to precise the question as it seems to be a difficult matter.
  • Point one is the place it was published: what meens "public"? A speech given in the public, or a written text publisdhed publicly (like in a great newspaper) as well?
  • Point two: what is a "clear intend of the author that the speech/work is a manifesto"?
  • Point three: even if we think 1 + 2 are fullfilled - can we publish the whole speech/work or can we cite it only? (see the mentioned discussion on en.ws)
  • Point four: when it should turn out that a citation is possible (not the whole work), we should decide if we are open for citations (most Wikisources are not as far as I know). (By a citation a mean a fragment / a part of a document that has not been published before as a standalone text; if it was published like this so it is not a ciatation in our sense but a normal document.)
Regards -jkb- 16:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Links to here and elsewhere

A report. Before I left for my holidays I made in the Czech Wikipedia and Wikisource some links to the author page of Josef Svatopluk Machar here. After I have come back I found some unpleasant discussions on this. On a page of the Wikimedia Czech Republic [3] some admins of Wikizdroje/Wikilivres are discussing it. They argue that the edits on WL coulde proove to be not legal, partly because in fact it is a domain of a provider from Arizona (whoisinfo), this could be dangerous for Czech or other non-canadian citizens when participating, the domain works aggressive and it is not clear if the copyright laws are abused or not, more over, because it is an evasion of the Czech law it could also harm to the Czech Wikimedia project at whole (even the lost of sponsors is possible), in one word: the matter will be prooved by a juridical consulting bureau, but it is better not to participate with and not to link to Wikilivres at all. In the same time on the Czech WS has been started a discussion about links to the "Wikisource incubator" (yes, the address is wikisource.org) [4] with the goal no link to it (probably they mean texts with the PD-US-1923) because incubators are mostly one man project and thus untrustworthy or even illegal.
It is difficult for me to comment these development as it seems to me that factual reasons cannot be the only ones here (I personally presume fully different reasons; not only because some of the users are registered here and also on the Oldwikisource and they are informed). So my work here and on the oldwikisource will continue as usual but without the linking to here from the Czech projects (I reverted there all my related edits to avoid edit wars etc.; links from the German Wikipedia are OK). -jkb- 21:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello, There are some misunderstandings of what copyright law is about. It is for each individual to check if the document is copyrighted in his own country. For that some information is provided indicating if it is not copyrighted in Canada only or in other countries as well. This has nothing to do with where the domain is registered, which is totally irrelevant to copyright. Anyway I think that simply reading online or downloading a copyrighted document is not a crime in most cases. The responsibility is on who is publishing it. Wikilivres will always respect the participants' privacy, and will never disclose any information about them to the authorities. If a document cannot be published under Canadian law, it will simply be deleted. Regards, Yann 12:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I have heard of no complaints on Chinese Wikisource about linking to old Wikisource for pre-1923 Chinese works still copyright-restricted in Greater China or linking to pages right here for Chinese works whose authors died since 1946. I cannot bother whatever happens to Czech wikis as I am generally fine with how Chinese Wikisource works.--Jusjih 04:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, misunderstanding. The users who discus this are long term users, admins, partly functionaries of the Wikimedia section. Since years they define the licence policy in the Czech projects and they must know what are they discussing about. Therefore - as I stated above - I presume other reasons for the rejection of linking to or even cooperation with the WL (or Oldwikisource). I just do not agree with the argument that - when I am publishing a text on WL that is PD according to the Canadian Copyright Act - I make a crime handling according to the Czech Copyright Law. The same could be said about the English Wikipedia which allows fair use. Fair use is not allowed in the Czech Copyright Law - so participation in or linking to English Wikipedia would be criminal... Nonsence. (to Jusjih: yes, I designed similar templates like this or 1923, but they are not welcome so I deleted them). No comment more. Regards -jkb- 16:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

URL of the Canadian copyright law

In June or July 2009 I changed the URLs of the page with the Canadian copyright law (that we need for the main pages) as the old one was an error 404. Now the present URL is 404 as well (both English and French). Does somebody know a stable URL of the page? Would be nice. Thanks, -jkb- 01:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I have found the URL http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Statute/C/C-42.pdf, it is bilingual, for the first it couzld be used. -jkb- 08:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I changed the URL on all main pages. Another solution would be linking to en.ws:Copyright Act of Canada. Yann 12:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, better, if possible, is a link to the original (where we can expect some updates). But the link to en.ws could proof to be more stable, indeed. However, I think we should have the same source in all main pages (and also the copyrights pages that I have changed as well with the pdf link).

Allowing IPs to edit deletion requests?

I would like to ask if we can exceptionally allow IPs to edit Wikilivres:Possible_copyright_violations and Wikilivres:Delete without usernames. If impossible, I am proposing at English and Chinese Wikisources to allow remote control and discussion of English and Chinese texts to be deleted, as PD-manifesto works are being removed there and some will be brought here.--Jusjih 03:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Well I don't mind about Wikilivres:Possible_copyright_violations. But what is the sense of Wikilivres:Delete? We have a Template:Delete which includes the Category:Deletion requests. Is it not enough? -jkb- 16:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Wikilivres:Delete is to ask deleting anything other than for copyright reasons.--Jusjih 02:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
The whole site is not editable by IP because of several bot attacks. I think it is simple enough to create an account (no email required). Yann 13:14, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
OK. An acount creation is really not quite difficult. -jkb- 18:47, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I started en.ws:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Remote_nomination_of_English_texts_at_Canadian_Wikilivres about remote control of English pages here, but without consensus. I will ask Chinese Wikisource soon as there are extremely limited Chinese users here.--Jusjih 04:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Language-specific copyright license tags

As I hear no major complaints against English {{Manifesto}}, French {{Manifeste}}, or Chinese {{宣言}} while I cannot bother how Czech speakers react so much, I would like to ask about the uses of language-specific copyright license tags. While tagging Chinese manifestos, I prefer to use the Chinese tag already linking to English and French versions, but without tags in other languages. My opinions are that:

  1. Works should be tagged based on which languages they are written. When interlanguage links are present, other language tags are not readily needed. I cannot read Czech, German, Russian, or Spanish, but I can follow the interlanguage links to see what the tags mean.
  2. Author pages should be tagged based on which languages they are or were mostly associated with. For example, I would like to tag Chinese authors with Chinese tags only, unless they also speak certain other languages.

My opinions are to reduce excessive transclusions of language-specific tags, i.e. quality but not quantity. What are your opinions?--Jusjih 04:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I am not sure if I understand the problem. If your PC's preferences are Chinese, you will get the Chinese text. I would like to see it Czech, English or German, naturally. And, if somebody edit the page with the preference in Ki-Svahili, he will get it English. Then we can chose the language in the small interwiki tags on the bottom of every template. Everybody should be happy as he undersands what the template is saying.
The other problem is that one with translations. This concerns both text pages and author pages. We have a lot of translations here and of authors having been translated. What language will you choose? My language preference here is Czech. Well when I see the page like Комментарий к Блейку/Песни опыта/Песня няни I don't minde the language as I can understand English and Russian as well, more or less. But somebody who can not understand both: which template will he get?
For the first, regards, -jkb- 17:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
As of now the language-specific copyright license tags do not automatically switch to what users prefer as on Wikimedia Commons. Since this is a multilingual site to primarily host source texts, there are many texts that we do not understand, e.g., I understand no Czech, German, Russian, or Spanish. Therefore, using the tag in a language corresponding to the texts and authors may be the best way for now unless a better thought is available. For you scenario if someone can read neither English nor Russian, the Creative Commons symbols might help, so I am adding Chinese descriptions to more images here. Many tags here have language links like on Wikimedia Commons. Finally, is {{Manifesto-cs}} to be used or not? I replaced maybe-public-domain symbols in other three language versions with black copyright symbols.--Jusjih 02:48, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Hm. I did not recognize this. Every time I create a new switchable multilingual template I try to see if it works and I make some treatments with English or German Interface. And it worked in those cases i.e. it switched automatically. But anyway, I suppose there are those small language interwikis on the bottom of each licence template so tat it should be possible to switch manually should not be? Or is it something else that doesn't work? Regards, -jkb- 18:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Commons images ...

.. do not work on Wikilivres the whole day. Any serious reason? -jkb- 14:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Since yesterday evening OK. -jkb- 12:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

New parameter for year in Template:Header

Modeled after Chinese and English Wikisources I just added a new parameter for the year of a work in Template:Header in gray color with automated category. I have not internationalized the display in the header, but our year categories in Indo-Arabic numerals are already language-independent, such as Category:1950 for works in 1950.--Jusjih 03:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I also wonder why we have separate Template:Title with similar purpose.--Jusjih 03:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
As I can see the Template:Title is being used (and I do it as well) for single works or for a collections (where the book has more parts - chapters, poems etc.), and this page contrains something like a content, while Template:Header is something like navigation template for those single parts. See e.g. The Odes and The Odes/Book III/13. -jkb- 10:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the point to have 2 different templates is to be able to count individual works. Yann 13:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Here is more complicated case: two different years for publication of original and translation: The Captive/Chapter I.2 what to be preferred? Dmitrismirnov 01:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I think both dates should be mentioned in the notes, that's why a single date parameter doesn't cover all cases. Yann 11:30, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, ack, and the date when it will be PD in the country of origin is also interesting etc. But when we insert all this into the template (which should enable simple navigation) we will make it too complicated. It is better to mention such points either in the parametre note or, as I do, on the bottom of the main page like e.g. here: Slezské písně#bottom (and of course to link to it from all parts of the book). Here it is possible to include more informations like about the first edition, PD since..., source, etc. etc. -jkb- 12:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

X

500px-Xmas tree animated.gifA merry X-mas to all who celebrate it, and merry days to all who do not. Reghards, -jkb- 10:17, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Registration error

Hello,

Not sure if it's the right place to report that bug, but I just registered… registration and login were successful, and I got the following error on page [5]: 

Could not send confirmation mail. Check address for invalid characters.
Mailer returned: error_log(/var/log/apache2/wikilivres.info-debug_log): failed to open stream: Permission denied

My email address contains only lowercase letters, two points and the @ sign. I double-checked with the back button, and it is truly valid.

Have an happy new year,

Calimo 16:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

By the way, I did get the email all right (it was just a little bit slow to come) and the activation was successful! Calimo 16:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
So OK now? Good luck here and a Happy New Year, -jkb- 16:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes I think so, yet someone may want to investigate it, so that future users don't get scared? (I wasn't scared, just surprised to get an error when all the rest was OK… but other users may be frightened, mayn't they?)
Have a happy new year! Calimo 17:40, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeces

I have created two index-pages: Index:Sværmerer.djvu and Index:I Æventyrland.djvu. For both of these I use the <pagelist />-tag, and it yields a pagelist, but when I click any of the individual pages, I don't see the page. What is wrong? V85 13:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

This bug is known if not understood. You can try this: create files for each page, like [[File:Sværmerer.djvu|page=1|570px]] and when you preview it you see the image. Does it work for you? Not very satisfactory but better than nothing. --Zephyrus 17:47, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Automated copyright licenses

As I have made automated copyright licenses on Chinese and English Wikisources and Wikimedia Commons, I am bringing Template:PD-posthumous from English Wikisource soon after importing a few posthumous works in the Canadian but not American public domain. Next, I would like to automate copyright licenses based on how many years authors have died, but Canada does not need distinction of en.ws:Template:Pd/1923 and en.ws:Template:Pd/1996 as in the USA.--Jusjih 04:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I would like to introduce more automated copyright licenses: {{PD-pma-author}} for authors and {{PD-pma}} for works. The usage is to enter which years authors died, so the tag will be automatically updated in decades. For example, entering {{PD-pma-author|1950}} for an author who died in 1950 will get {{PD-old-50-author}} this year, but it will be updated to {{PD-old-60-author}} next year, then {{PD-old-70-author}} in 2021, fully automated. As most countries copyright for life + 50 years and most others copyright for life + 70 years, I have also added semi-public domain symbols to {{PD-old-50-author}}, {{PD-old-60-author}}, {{PD-old-50}}, and {{PD-old-60}}. My added 50- and 60-tags are not redundant to {{PD-Canada}} and {{PD-India}} as I see Canada and India copyrighting posthumous works differently. I have copied the American and European copyright warning from MediaWiki:PD-Canada-Author and MediaWiki:PD-Canada into 50- and 60-tags in Chinese, English, and French that I speak, but I cannot do it for any other languages, so please help if you can. Thanks.--Jusjih 03:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC) (trilingual with limited French skill)

Footnotes as tooltip

On the Oldwikisource I have installed a small script from the it.wikipedia.org which causes that the text of references/footnotes appears like a tooltip when you show on the reference number by the mouse. Should we have it here as well? -jkb- 16:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, why not? Yann 17:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, well I did. In fact as far as I can see this script is OK and has no negative effects. An example see e.g. Satiricon/1. 1902-1903 (3) - three footnotes. Just show on the footnote numbers in the text with the mouse and the text of the footnote will apear as a tooltip. -jkb- 18:06, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

External author links to WP's & WS's

Hi. when I make an internal link I do not care if the target page exists or not, the link is red and everybody sees it is red. External links were something else for me up to now: all such links are blue so that you don't know if the target page exists or not. Therefore, when linking from WP to Ws or WS to WP etc. I used to install only links to existing target pages. Here on the authors pages I have seen that e.g. Dmitri links to WP and WS in all cases on all author pages (I think). First I had some problems with it but now I think it has some great advantages and it is a good idea. We do not have to check the WP's and WS's if they created a page for the author X.Y. Sure it's not good to have links to non existent pages (and we should know the exact spelling of the author's name in the project), but I would gladly suggest to make it this way as we can assume that such pages will be done some times in any case. What do you think about it? -jkb- 23:02, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Template:Information

The template doesn't work sufficiently, see Template talk:Information, -jkb- 16:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Licence templates for authors

We have three licence templates for authors: {{PD-old-70-author}}, {{PD-Canada-Author}} and {{CC-BY-NC-Author}}. First, they have different formating, secondly, I think that for this reason (author page) the formating like in {{PD-old-70-author}} is the better one and fits better. I would like to change the other two ones in this way as well, so that the could output something like (PD-Canada-Author)

SemiPD-icon.svg The works of this author are in the public domain in Canada, but may still be copyrighted in the USA and some countries in Europe. Some translations may not be in the public domain. It is the responsibility of the user to determine whether the works are in the public domain in his or her respective country. Flag of Canada.png

and (CC-BY-NC-Author)

SemiPD-icon.svg The works of this author were published here under the Creative Commons CC BY.svg CC NC.svg license and can be reproduced if non-commercial. Translations may apply other conditions.

If there will be no objections I will reformate them. Regards, (unsigned by -jkb-) [6]

I support reformatting them, but eventually, I may want to add automated license tags so one can now say that an author died more than 50 years ago, then progress to 60, 70, etc.--Jusjih 02:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
So OK, done, and all the template contain now {{switch lang}} as well. I think for the purpose of the author page it is better this way (however, everything can be reverted). Jusjih, if you mean you need some templates with 60 years pma or so, so you should do it by yourself, I am not quite sure if I understand what you mean; we have 50 years now (PD-Canada conditions) and 70 years or more (PD-old), I never needed something else. Regards, -jkb- 08:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
P.S. After I have had a look at some author pages I must say that in some cases there is no improvement - the reason: there was no exact recommendatioon how (where) to use the template so that the template appears at many different places. My suggestion: if you want so I can revert the new versions of the two templates (thus we shall have a status quo again) and then I will create new teplates with a light different name that could be used in the future (I really prefer the new ones). Let me know. -jkb- 10:19, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
How about changing Template:PD-Canada similarly? We often use it near the upper right corner, but others are often on the bottom.--Jusjih 00:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the new templates. I have a slow and intermittent connection, so I only follow from time to time. Yann 14:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
@ Yann: Hi Yann, nice to hear from you again!
@ Jusjih: well sure, I like the broad formate more than the quadratic one, and it is no problem to change Template:PD-Canada or the other ones as well. But once again (see my note above from 10:19, 25 April 2010): up to now we had no rules for the usage, sometimes the template is on the top, some times in a section, some times on the bottom (which is probably the best when you use these templates - I use another system). But let us think about it. -jkb- 15:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
"For translations may apply other conditions" does not look like proper English grammar, so I just changed {{PD-Canada-Author}} and {{CC-BY-NC-Author}}.--Jusjih 03:22, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

New licence template system

Hi Jusjih, now I understand what you mean with automated licence templates. They are fine and I like them. Could I make some points what could be done in next days so that everybody will be able to follow all the new templates? Well

  • A: the texts are mostly not listed and translated in the Wikilivres:Localization (I can do it)
  • B: the templates have no documentation
  • C: we would need a central help page with a short summary and general guideline (it would be e.g. important to underline the difference pma vs. posthumous - see my mistake with editio princeps above)
  • D: and then we should decide (and describe) what should be done with the old template system
  • E: especially: what shall we do with the {{PD-Canada}} and {{PD-Canada-Author}} template? As far as I can see the are obsolete now

I would like to help but you are very quick and it is not easy to oversight all new changes. Are some other templates to be created? If not, I will make a draft, OK?
Another point - icon on the top right: As long as we do not have the extension for imagemap it is not possible to use the icon on the top right (it doesn't work) - or, we should use an old syntax that I used on Czech Wikisource 2006/2007, but I would have to search for it. (The question is if it is really necessary - I like it, sure, but...). See my change in Template:PD-old-50-author Regards, -jkb- 11:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

To reply, I list by your points, while PD-pma means public domain after years of death, as Canada does not need American distinction of PD-1923, PD-1996, etc:
  • A: I tried to merge the Chinese, English, and French texts from {{PD-Canada}} and {{PD-Canada-Author}} to {{PD-old-50}} and {{PD-old-50-author}}, about American and European copyright warning. I cannot do the same for any other languages. I edited a lot of MediaWiki pages to try localization. Please check.
  • B: I am unsure how to have multilingual documentation, so I started brief English description.
  • C: Yes, to underline the difference pma vs. posthumous is very important because Canada does have special rules for posthumous works and I have seen some possible Canadian copyvios that need discussions.
  • D and E: {{PD-Canada}} and {{PD-Canada-Author}} should be gradually replaced with automated ones but not deleted. After massive replacement, they can still be reserved for any Canadian works and authors, like {{PD-India}} and {{PD-India-Author}} for Indian works and authors and country-specific tags on English Wikisource and Wikimedia Commons.
About some other templates to be created, I would like to add PD-old-100, 99, 85, 80, and 75 besides 50, 60, and 70, to accommodate as many global users as possible. As we have modern translations of very ancient works, more tags are useful for translation tags showing the copyright status of original and translated texts. Adding PD-old-85 is for French musical works with both World War extensions, like L'Internationale melody whose musical composer Pierre Degeyter died in 1932 while the French copyright subsists through October 2017, which is now PD-old-75. If showing an semi-PD icon on the upper-right corner is not ready, then it may be better to use more restrictive copyright tags on the top and bottom, like non-commercial, non-derivative, and PD-old-50 and 60 tags. Or is it ever possible to have a floating icon? I tried using my new tags in translation tags, but upper-right icon would make awful display, so feel free to remove upper-right icon while you try improvement.--Jusjih 03:30, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Short of time a bit at present. Will answer tomorrow. Regards -jkb- 22:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
{{PD-Canada}} and {{PD-Canada-Author}} can be moved to {{PD-old-50}} and {{PD-old-50-author}} with a bot. The tricky part is when there is "noinclude" tags in the page. If anyone want to do it, I can grant you a bot flag. My connection is quite slow and intermittent now, so it is difficult for me to do it. I have however a reserve about the new templates: I designed {{PD-Canada}} so that the copyright status appears at the top of the page. I think that is important when there is a high probability that the text is copyrighted. Any idea how to solve this? That's why it was proposed to be replaced by an icon at the bottom of the header. Yann 13:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
First, short and quick answers to Yann's problem with the icon somewhere on the top. If you would accept a sollution like in Oldwikisource with the 1923-templatze here (icon i) or in Jusjih's version of PD-old-50 here (c), so no problem, but as I write above, we need either the extension for imagemap or I will search a very old syntax I used years before. Which icon we could take - it doesn't matter. -jkb- 15:34, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, this is exactly what we need. I can't install an extension for now, so it would be great if it works without. Yann 16:21, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
OK, I have to find it. -jkb- 16:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC) - - - Found, tomorrow I will test it. -jkb- 22:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC) - - - Well, as we don't have the version MediaWiki 1.14 or later it was "interesting" to work on it but now it will work: see Template:Test1 and Template:Test2 and for the results User:-jkb-/Mud pie. All provisory pages, say tomorrow I will improve it and make new templates. -jkb- 16:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

@ Jusjih: well, tomorrow I will start to make something like a general view on the progress, have a look then at User:-jkb-/new licence template system. I will also try and test a bit different system: the text of the licences could be saved in a MediaWiki-Text (where it can be localized as well), the pma-template can use it better, I think. But let us see. Regards, -jkb- 17:46, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I was incredibly short of time and tomorrow I leave for some 3/4 days. The main problem with the template linking from an image is solved - see Template:Image link. The rest - i.e. the implemaentation into the license template system - will be done next week; I have a plan and I have tested it in my local wiki, so it will be done quite quickly. Have a good weekend, -jkb- 18:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Well. Jusjih, as I see you did something in the meantime. As far as I can see we ommit now some few templates that would arrange the templates we had and you created both on the top and the bottom of a page. I assume that I will change the templates {{PD-pma}} and {{PD-pma-author}} (and AFAIK {{PD-posthumous}} as well). I will arrange them approximaqtely like {{Test2}}. I will start tommorow, after I came back I had a lot to do. I think it will be fine then. So long, -jkb- 19:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello Jkb, I am very pleased with your new templates, as they answer two problems at once: to have a complete copyright information on every page, while the top of the page is not clutered with a template, but a nice icon just leads to the information at the bottom. This is also scalable, and should be used for authors' page too. I changed {{PD-pma-author}} for this effect. The text of each template may need to be reworded, but that can be done at any time. Yann 07:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks :-). Yes indeed, and now they works good even on old pages where they have been included on different pages (top, Works, bottom etc.) without disturbing the page. I will continue to unify them and I will make the same with the posthumois templates from Jusjih. In fact I wanted to finish this some more days before but the time is sometimes a terrible phenomenon... Regards -jkb- 08:41, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I finished adding the new template to author's pages. I took this opportunity to do some much needed cleaning. There are now some cases: what wording do we use for authors with unknown dates? I think we can add works if they were published in the 1920s and 1930s, and if the author's date of death is unknown. I have a few cases in French. Yann 18:24, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

If we agree to present here authors with an unsure date of the death we need a separate license template, I think. When the author seems to be dead since more than 50 years (= PD Canada) so we need a "stable" i.e. not automaded template (as the text will not change in the future until we know the year of the death - then we can use pd-pma). Authors who died probably less than 50 years ago should not be presented here at all. -jkb- 09:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Now, we need to add the documentation translated in each language. Yann 08:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I started to add the documentation to pages like Template:PD-old-100, and I will prepare a page Wikilivres:License templates. Probably it will be enough when we have these pages and documentations in English. But anyway, We can make documentations for the templates {{PD-pma}} and {{PD-pma-author}} by merging a localized MediaWiki text (int:...) in each language. The same for {{PD-posthumous}}. -jkb- 08:46, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
The page Wikilivres:License templates is created, please have a look at it. Thx, -jkb- 17:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed extra "return". That's necessary for L’Internationale, f.e. Your page is OK. For {{PD-old-100}}, we can write that it is public domain world wide. Yann 18:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

undelete

I created the template {{undelete}} that can be used on pages like Letters from the Earth, that has been deleted for temporary copyright violation. OK? -jkb- 16:34, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

More template standardization

Hello,

Following the recent copyright template standardization, I would like to continue this with title templates, as to reduce the number of templates, and provide better localization. Especially, I would like to merge {{Poem}}, {{Poem-ru}}, {{TitrePoeme}}, and then all title templates. Comments? Suggestions? Yann 08:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

If you know how, then go ahead, and I will follow up with the Chinese version, when identifying which MediaWiki pages to translate.--Jusjih 02:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

NC

Hi. I saw your notice on cc-nc licenses on Dmitri's page. This is a point that I noticed time before - there are some 150 authors in the NC category, mostly Russian ones and I don't know how they have been handled etc. - probably the licences were imported from the Russian WS. However, in some cases I am not sure if this license fits the works, e.g. Vladimir Burich who dies 1994 or Sergey Petrov who died 1988 and some more ones could not know what cc-by-nc is so that they could not estimate such license. In my eyes a work that is not PD cannot be simply estimated as cc-nc if the author did not state this by himself (or his widow etc.). Probably we should check the nc categories. The problem is that we do not have something like OTRS here where the living authors at least could give us a nc authorization. I am not sure if we could make a OTRS domain (or section or whatever) in the Wikimedia OTRS (might be then together for Oldwikisource). As I have the OTRS access (limited for cs) I could be active there as well. Regards -jkb- 16:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Yes, I agree that these works need to be reviewed. Most of them were published on WL by Dmitrismirnov. A one time, I assumed that he asked the heirs, but I am not so sure now. We need to have a wider discussion anyway. Regards, Yann 16:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
All claimed copyright licenses require evidence. No evidence means no permission. I have no access to Wikimedia OTRS, but I know whom to ask for any Chinese works. Even though Wikimedia rejects non-commerical and non-derivative licenses while we accept them here, we can still depend on Wikimedia OTRS to log any evidence of copyright permission, whether commercial, derivative, or not. The Internationale (Bragg) has my effort to get copyright permission. When not acceptable on Wikisource, I post the work here. I would like to ask everyone to look at Wikilivres:Delete to check works claimed Category:PD-release. If evidenced, they should go to Wikisource, or once again, no evidence means no permission.--Jusjih 03:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes, see above. So we should check all works in the categories Category:CC-BY-NC, Category:CC-BY-NC-ND, Category:CC-BY-NC-SA, Category:Authorized and Category:PD-release if they belong there i.e. if they have the permission NC or release or not. Not easy. -jkb- 09:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Facebook

Hello,

Wikilivres has now its own page on Facebook: [7]. BTW when linking the English main page the first sentence is cut. Could you look at this? It is OK in French. Feel to advertize it in your language. Yann 14:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Léonard Bercy

A problem with a probably unknown year of a tranlsator, see User talk:JeanFaucille and User talk:-jkb-#Léonard Bercy, say what you mean... Regards -jkb- 19:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

pre-1923 works

On every main page there is the policy defined by the sentences "You are welcome to publish texts here if they cannot be accepted in Wikisource. Texts that can be accepted in Wikisource should be published there". If the Wikisource subdomains do not accept pre-1923 works so they can be published on the Oldwikisource. But what should we do with works in languages that are present on Wikilivres as a language section? I would like to avoid a situation that works in one language should be published on three places: PD-old-70 on the subdomain, pre-1923 on the Oldwikisource and PD-old-50 etc. on Wikilivres. In this case (cs, de, en, es, fr, ru and zh) we should accept here pre-1923 works as well (at least, up to now I didn't find any wording about this...). Thanks for your opinions. -jkb- 09:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

There is no problem to publish here works published before 1923. We should just avoid publishing the works twice. Yann 11:31, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Works published before 1923 are not automatically in the public domain in Canada. For the seven "major" languages here, English, French, and Russian Wikisources accept pre-1923 works still copyright-restricted at home, but Chinese, Czech, and German Wikisources do not. I am unsure of Spanish Wikisource. If a work is unacceptable on Chinese, Czech, or German Wikisource but acceptable on Oldwikisource, it should be posted on Oldwikisource but not here. Chinese Wikisource has a well-developed policy on which site to display Chinese works. For Czech, German, and other similar Wikisources, please inform your subdomains about Oldwikisource for pre-1923 works copyright-restricted at home and this site for works copyright-restricted in the USA but acceptable here.--Jusjih 01:55, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Sure, pre 1923 is not automatically PD Canada. Let me clear the matter a bit, I have discussed this with Yann recently as well. We have more sorts of 1923 works:
  • 1. pre 1923 works, author died 1959 or sooner, i.e. at least 50 years ago = PD Canada (when died 1939 or sooner so it is PD old 70 and goes to the language subdomain normally)
  • 2. pre 1923 works, author died 1960 or later i.e. not even PD old 50
While the works under #2 can be accepted by Oldwikisource only but not by Wikilivres, the works under #1 can be accepted by both of them. Normally they should be posted in the language subdomains or in Oldwikisource. But works written in the seven main languages of Wikilivres, that is my proposal, should or could be accepted in Wikilivres (because they are PD Canada) where we have good working language sections (we do not have them in Oldwikisource in languages like German, Czech or Chinese); only if they are accepted in tha lanbuage subdomains so they bolng there, of course. And secondly, we can concentrate all PD old 50 works in these languages on just one place. -jkb- 14:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
You mean that pre-1923 Czech and German works whose author died more than 50 years but up to 70 years ago and still copyright-restricted in Czech Republic and Germany will be posted here. I am disinterested in where to post Czech and German works still copyright-restricted in Czech Republic and Germany, while this topic is less of a concern for Chinese works.--Jusjih 11:51, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

Maybe I should create a new section for this, but what should be done with English works, like The Ghost Patrol and Young Man Axelbrod, both published in the United States before 1923? Should these be moved to Wikisource, and should adding works like these be specifically discouraged? And how do you do move pages? Innotata 11:35, 22 December 2011 (EST)

Template New Works

Concerns the template {{NewWorks}}. What belongs there and what doesn't? I see there some pages like Bâtard, La Foi des hommes, Trop d’or etc., which are only a part of a greater work - see Jack London and the list of the French tranlations. Up to now I used to link to a whole work only (when it is completely finished), not to the subpages. Is it right or not? Thx -jkb- 10:58, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

These texts are not parts of a greater work. These are short stories. Hans Castorp 11:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Well OK (btw, it is not so important), but the lists in Jack London or La Foi des hommes, et autres histoires and other ones are iritating... Regards -jkb- 11:22, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair-dealing rationales for otherwise copyrighted manifestos

I would like propose requiring Canadian fair-dealing rationales for otherwise copyrighted manifestos. English Wikipedia requires fair-use rationales to explain why using copyright-restricted images contends to be American fair use in specific articles. I propose this as Arilang1234, once a blocked problem user on Chinese Wikisource and Wikiquote for copyvios, has added so many Chinese works tagged manifestos, while I doubt if they are really legal in Canada as manifestos given in "public". My proposed requirements are as follows:

  1. Whenever a user posts otherwise copyrighted manifestos and tags them given in public, called "public" manifestos hereafter, the contributor must explain the rationales in detail why the works qualify for Canadian fair dealing under subsection 32.2 (1) of Canadian Copyright Act.
  2. Any other user who spots "public" manifestos with missing rationales may add rationales in good faith or challenge the contribution by proposing deletion as a possible copyright violations.
  3. At least two established users (including those from a Wikisource domain) other than the contributor must support the retention of "public" manifestos, or the articles will be deleted as questionable.
  4. "Public" manifestos added after adopting this policy will have 5-day grace period.
  5. Existing "public" manifestos with missing rationales will have 7-day grace period.
  6. Users who repeatedly posts unacceptable manifestos may be blocked at the discretion of any administrators. Extreme violators may be indefinitely blocked. Proven sockpuppets used to evade legitimate blocks may also be blocked.

While our Template:Manifesto is legal in Canada, we should also require rationales to discourage users from abusing the system. Some famous manifestos like I Have a Dream can easily get rationales, but I cannot always control Arilang1234 posting too many Chinese manifestos that may not be reasonably "public", so I propose stricter policy. Many Chinese manifestos were transferred here after another administrator there supported the action to export and I agreed, then I will link to relevant Chinese Wikisource discussion as rationales. Any comments and suggestions to my proposal are welcome.--Jusjih 02:50, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I think the issue is more about language understanding than fair-dealing rationale. If someone publishes a text in a language we don't know, we can't judge if the text is acceptable here, but it under fair-dealing or any other PD rationale. I trust you to check about Chinese texts. Regarding manifestos, I have a broad interpretation of copyright law: if someone writes a text in the purpose to be freely distributed as much as possible, I think we can host it here. Regards, Yann 04:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
As Chinese Wikisource is interested in "remote deletion discussion" of Chinese texts here, I can limit my proposed policy to Chinese manifestos here, as I alone cannot effectively monitor all Chinese texts. If you have no objection, I will present my proposal to Chinese Wikisource then start more "remote copyright enforcement" from the designated Chinese Wikisource page. I mention Arilang1234 only because he has had problem contributions, but my proposal is nothing personal. Finally, the USA has the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act, what is the Canadian equivalent?--Jusjih 23:06, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
When the issue is more about language understanding than fair-dealing rationale, I would like to propose a policy here to strictly limit otherwise copyrighted manifestos to English and French only on a case-by-case basis. Allowing otherwise copyrighted manifestos in any other languages poses major problems as the translated Copyright Act of Canada can possibly mislead users speaking neither English nor French. This is why I am now banning otherwise copyrighted manifestos in Chinese here after discussing with Chinese Wikisource and existing pages are being phased out. English Wikisource strictly control exporting otherwise copyrighted manifestos to this site and I support this.--Jusjih 04:51, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Financial support

Hello, I have payed the hosting of this site all by myself since the creation in 2005. I have now much less financial resources than before, and I would like to find financial support from others. So if you can help, even with only 10 US$, please do, via Paypal: Wikilivres:Site support. Thanks, Yann 15:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Dear Yann, Did you receive my modest donation sent yesterday via PayPal? Dmitrismirnov 10:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, thanks a lot Dimitri. Yann 12:14, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Bonjour, Combien le site coûte-t-il en tout par an ? Hans Castorp 19:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

75 US$/mois, soit 900 US$/an. Yann 01:46, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Does the number of articles affect the cost or is it just a flat fee regardless of website size?--Jusjih 02:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
The number of articles does not affect the cost. The traffic would affect the cost if there were a ten fold increase, but that is unlikely, as it is quite stable for the last 2 years. Obviously increasing the number of articles will increase the traffic in the long run, but at the same time, the cost of hosting is slightly decreasing over time, so the cost will rename the same. Yann 10:39, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Bit busy in these days. Small paypal sent two days ago, mail follows. Regards -jkb- 00:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
"75 US$/mois, soit 900 US$/an" - is quite a lot and I afraid the project could be in danger if you by some reason cannot pay. Probably the project needs some financial support, sponsors, foundation or at least the action to raise money (like Wikipedia does from time to time). I added the Russian translation to the Make a donation page as well as a small notice on the Russian Front page. Maybe it would be reasonable to do the same for all the languages? Regards Dmitrismirnov 08:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
We either need financial support, or finding a free hosting. Adding a notice on the Main Page might help. Yann 15:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

C'est une somme. Peut-être devrais-tu ajouter une boite sur le côté pour afficher le niveau de financement, comme le font certains sites. Cela permettrait de voir la viabilité du projet tout en incitant à faire des dons de temps en temps. Hans Castorp 12:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

http://www.ucoz.com/

Yann, have you heard about this? And what do you think, if this reliable or not? http://www.ucoz.com/

Universal website builder (CMS). Free web hosting with unlimited disk space. A lot of default designs to choose from. Free domain hosting in any zone (for example: mysite.com). Stable work of the servers (uptime 99.8%). E-mail addresses of the form mail@mysite.com. Automatic sitemap file creation. Handy adding of video (youtube.com etc.). Data backup. Technical support and documentation. Large community of users. No cost of a website creation and support. More than 1 000 000 people have already chosen uCoz website builder within four years. Create a FREE website Dmitrismirnov 17:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Link to the Wikipedia information about them. Seems to be very interesting! --Zephyrus 20:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
If we can move everything from this heavily paid site to a new free website, please let me know so I can inform Chinese Wikisource, as acceptance of Chinese "public" manifestos is indefinitely suspended due to our financial concerns.--Jusjih 01:14, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Usually free website means that you get ads. It seems there is no ad, but we have to use the uCoz software. We need to be able to use Mediawiki, not another software. I doubt we can get a reliable web hosting for free on the long term, unless we have the support of some organisation (university, etc.). Yann 01:37, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Copyright templates

Hello, I would like to add the following:

  1. Add an icon on the top right for -NC templates, like for PD templates.
  2. Create a template for anonymous works, and when the author's or translator's date of death is not known.

What do you think? Could you help please? Yann 07:21, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

A stub here. Is this the right thing to do? --Zephyrus 22:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
I support Yann's both proposals. For the second one, please look at these English Wikisource templates for how to word the tag here and how to "automate" them based on when anonymous works were published:
  1. en.ws:Template:PD-anon-1923
  2. en.ws:Template:PD-anon-1996
  3. en.ws:Template:PD-anon-60-1996
  4. en.ws:Template:PD-anon-70-1996
  5. en.ws:Template:PD-anon-80-1996

However, here for the Canadian Copyright Act, please do include PD-anon-50 and we do not need separate "1923" and "1996" tags.--Jusjih 01:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait. We already have Template:Unknown author that we can try automating it.--Jusjih 01:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Right to Left pages?

Hi. Contributors to the Hebrew Wikisource have access to thousands of proofread and edited digital texts. But it is very problematic for us to host them there. The problem: The digital texts are licensed under no-commercial use restrictions.

I recently found out that Wikilivres hosts texts such as these. It would be great if we could make them available here.

The only problem I forsee is a technical one: Can Wikilivres support pages or some sort of subsection in a RTL editing environment? I seem to recall that the software now allows designating RTL pages in a LTR wiki, but I am not sure how this is done. Or would it be possible to create an RTL subsection as at Wikitravel?

Unfortunately, using RTL tags on each LTR page is not a practical way to go about it. Does anyone here at Wikilivres know if and how this can be accomplished?

Thanks for any possible help, Dovi 20:40, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello again. After some searching, I found the following: There is a "gadget" available from preferences at the Wikimedia Commons called BiDiEditing. It allows for easy editing of RTL texts. If that could be implemented here it would pretty much solve the problem.
Are there any admins at Wikilivres who could implement that sort of thing here? Dovi 16:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
It would be with pleasure but I'm not very skilled with the technical side of sites. Yann is, and perhaps other admins of Wikilivres might be too, I think. --Zephyrus 19:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Should we start subdomains? If yes, Hebrew and anything right to left will have independent places, and I really prefer an independent place for Chinese.--Jusjih 02:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't know about Chinese, but there are already existing Wikimedia solutions to the RTL problems, they just need to be implemented. Can you comfortably edit texts in Chinese, for example, at the Wikimedia Commons?
In the meantime, since I last posted this question in 2010, several people at Hebrew Wikisource have asked for solutions to "no commercial use" texts, and Wikilivres is of course the ideal solution if it has the language support. I will post a note there to ask others to join in the discussion here. Dovi 17:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Editing texts in Chinese at the Wikimedia Commons is not very comfortable due to the split of traditional and simplified characters. This is not the issue of right to left.--Jusjih 15:51, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, just an update on this topic. There is a contributor to Hebrew Wikisource by the name of Or Shapira who has decided to edit some texts in Hebrew here at Wikilivres, from a multivolume work won't be in the public domain under the 70 year rule until 2016. I have given her some technical tips for doing RTL editing in an LTR environment at her talk page. Let's use this as an experiment to see how it works out. Dovi 05:44, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

Spammers

Hello,

You can also block accounts which have Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100914 Firefox/3.6.10 as a browser. Yann 06:13, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Bonjour,
Je ne sais pas s'il existe des mesures adaptées, mais il faudrait y réfléchir, car ça va finir par nuire gravement à Wikilivres. Il y a des trucs sur mediawiki.org. Par exemple, on peut bannir une très grande quantité d'IP et donc leur interdire aussi la création de comptes. Il faudrait voir si c'est utile ici. Marc 10:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I blocked the creation of new accounts until the software is updated, which should be done within two weeks with the help of Pathoschild. If someone wants a new account, any existing user can create a new one, please ask me here, or on Wikisource. Yann 09:09, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
You've probably already thought about it, but why not use a captcha system for account creation ? (see for example : this extension). Zaran 14:47, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I already use this extension with the default captcha, but the spammers have managed to crack it with a bot. So I need to upgrade to a more complicated captcha. Yann 17:13, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Software maintenance

Update

Hello. I'll be helping Yann with the technical portion of maintaining Wikilivres on a volunteer basis starting today. The maintenance today updated MediaWiki from 1.13.2 (2008-Oct) to 1.16.2 (2011-Feb), and updated these MediaWiki extensions to their 1.16.x snapshots:

Extension Old version New version
AntiBot r36492 (2008-Jun) r61389 (2010-Jan)
CategoryTree r????? (2008) r62678 (2010-Feb)
CharInsert r36357 (2006-Jun) r66255 (2010-May)
CheckUser r37716 (2008-Jul) r66255 (2010-May)
Cite r44056 (2008-Nov) r62678 (2010-May)
ConfirmEdit r36959 (2008-Jul) r62678 (2010-May)
ExpandTemplates r39164 (2008-Aug) r62790 (2010-Feb)
Gadgets r43269 (2008-Nov) r66255 (2010-May)
LilyPond  ?  ? (2009-Nov)
ParserFunctions r35157? (2008-May) r62695 (2010-Feb)
Poem r44839 (2008-Dec) r66255 (2010-May)
Polyglot r45038 (2008-Dec) r60747 (2010-Jan)
ProofreadPage r45025 (2008-Dec) r66814 (2010-May)
SimpleAntiSpam  ? r62474 (2010-Feb)
SpamBlacklist  ? r62451 (2010-Feb)
SyntaxHighlight GeSHi r41349 (2008-Sep) r62591 (2010-Feb)
WebStore r44752 (2008-Dec) r61532 (2010-Jan)

We'll be announcing future incremental maintenance ahead of time. If you notice any issues, please report it here. :) —Pathoschild 22:57:17, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, Pathoschild. Yann 21:41, 12 March 2011 (EST)
Thanks, great work. For ProofreadPage, there is a error message when I save an index :
« 1146 : Table 'wikilivres.pr_index' doesn't exist (localhost) »
Perhaps ProofreadPage.sql must be executed.
There is also a problem with images in indexes : there is no images and I have this message when I try to access an image :
« webstore_curl. Erreur depuis cURL : couldn't connect to host. »
Marc 07:46, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
Hello Marc. I fixed the ProofreadPage error, but the WebStore cURL error is strange. Were proofreading pages working correctly before the update? It's not caused by the WebStore and ProofreadPage updates (reverting those had no effect), and the file permissions are unchanged. If this was happening before the update, it might be caused by the PHP update a little while back. —Pathoschild 04:15:37, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. Before the update, there was no image, except by creating ourselves thumbnails. So, there was an error message, something about missing images. This was possibly related with the path of 404-handler.php file. The message is now different, and perharps it means that there is some issues with php-curl. Marc 07:16, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
When I try to create a thumbnail like [[Image:Schlick - Sur le fondement de la connaissance.djvu|page=15|2048px]], I have this error message :
« terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DJVU::GException' ppmtojpeg: EOF / read error reading magic number »
Perhaps $wgMaxShellMemory should be added in Localsettings (see [8]). Marc 10:59, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
Both problems should be fixed now. Requests for non-existent thumbnails are now routed through thumb.php; I added this solution to the ProofreadPage documentation. —Pathoschild 22:49:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
It works fine. Thanks a lot. There is still a problem with the categories and colors in the namespace page, but the essentiel is to have the thumbnails. Marc 08:02, 16 March 2011 (EDT)
What is the problem with the categories and colours? —Pathoschild 14:35:59, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Je vais plutôt m'exprimer en français car, sauf erreur, tu parles français, alors que, pour ma part, je m'exprime assez laborieusement en anglais. Le problème est que lorsque l'on marque une page avec un des niveaux de qualité, comme ici, il n'y a pas d'affichage de la catégorie correspondante, et il n'y a pas non plus de bandeau coloré, comme tu peux le voir ici. Je ne sais pas si cela provient de l'extension elle-même ou de sa configuration dans le site. J'ai suivi le mode d'emploi de l'extension en créant des pages mediawiki pour chaque niveau (exemple), mais cela ne résout rien. J'ai peut-être oublié quelque chose, mais je ne vois pas ce que cela pourrait être.
Autrement, serait-il possible d'activer l'import du texte des fichiers avec $wgDjvuTxt = "djvutxt"; ? Marc 10:49, 16 March 2011 (EDT)
This is done. Yann 14:05, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
Merci, je vois que cela fonctionne directement avec les nouveaux fichiers et en purgeant les anciens. Marc 08:12, 18 March 2011 (EDT)
J'ai corrigé le problème avec les catégories et les couleurs sur les pages ProofreadPage. Le problème était un bogue dans le code avec PHP 5; j'en ai avisé le développeur de ProofreadPage. —Pathoschild 04:02:32, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Merci ! Marc 08:12, 18 March 2011 (EDT)
Pathoschild, mille mercis ! --Zephyrus 16:57, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
De rien. :) —Pathoschild 04:15:37, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Deux bugs :

  • le premier est que la barre d’outils n’apparaît pas complètement dans l’espace page, sauf si l’en-tête et le pied de page sont déroulés avant le chargement complet de la page. Le bug était connu sur Wikisource et y a été corrigé.
  • le second est assez inquiétant : quand j’édite certaines pages (celle-ci par exemple), l’image commence à apparaître, puis mon écran scintille et plante. J’ai une distribution de type ubuntu. Marc 09:18, 20 March 2011 (EDT)
Le second bug ne s'est pas produit pour moi, mais pour le premier, je ne réussis pas à afficher la barre d'outils améliorée en mode page (I can't have the complete toolbar in Page mode either). --Zephyrus 17:55, 20 March 2011 (EDT)
Did the edit toolbar problem start happening before or after this update? Do you know how the toolbar problem was fixed on Wikisource? Was it fixed before they moved to 1.17, which has a new edit toolbar?
I have not been able to reproduce the second bug. What browser are you using? Could you explain in more detail what happens — does your browser slow down, stop responding, or crash? —Pathoschild 03:02:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Je ne sais plus exactement, mais je crois bien que la barre d’outils fonctionnait avant ; il y a eu ce bug sur Wikisource à un moment, c’est tout ce que je peux dire. Pour le second bug : l’image commence à apparaître, mais elle fait ensuite quelques scintillements, se dégrade (elle semble se charger par morceaux), puis tout l’écran semble faire quelques flashs noirs et tout est alors bloqué. Une fois, l’écran s’est relancé tout seul. J’utilise firefox. J’ai le même bug sur deux distributions, ubuntu et trisquel. J’ai une carte nvidia et j’utilise le pilote propriétaire. Marc 06:50, 22 March 2011 (EDT)
This sounds like a problem with your graphics driver. Have you had any other problems with it? Does this happen if you view the image directly, or edit the page with JavaScript disabled? —Pathoschild 00:26:57, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Oui, je vois l’image et je peux éditer sans java. En utilisant le pilote libre (nouveau), tout fonctionne. Il est possible que le bug vienne d’une incompatibilité entre des versions récentes du pilote propriétaire et de xorg. J’ai lu qu'il y avait quelques problèmes à ce niveau. Je vais donc plutôt essayer de réinstaller d’autres versions. Marc 05:41, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
Je suis revenu à une version précédente et ça fonctionne. Il reste donc la barre d’outils. Marc 11:13, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
I suspect the toolbar will work correctly when we update to MediaWiki 1.17. That release may be ready in the next few weeks, judging from a wikitech-l email sent out a few hours ago. Is it inconvenient enough to look into a 1.16 fix or a beta 1.17 update? —Pathoschild 10:32:09, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Je ne pense pas que ce soit très embêtant ni urgent pour le moment. Ça doit donc pouvoir attendre quelques semaines. J’en profite pour te remercier à nouveau, c’est vraiment très appréciable d’avoir quelqu’un qui s’occupe de faire tout fonctionner. Marc 13:07, 26 March 2011 (EDT)

CAPTCHA changes

Spam bots have been passing our CAPTCHAs (anti-bot tests) recently, so we're trying out some improvements to the CAPTCHA generator. Please let me know if you notice any issues. —Pathoschild 22:55:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

The new CAPTCHAs seem to be effective. There has not been any spam since we re-enabled account creation. —Pathoschild 03:03:46, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, this seems to work well. Thanks a lot, Pathoschild, for this. Yann 01:37, 22 March 2011 (EDT)
Well, it is too early to claim victory. I just blocked a spammer. Yann 03:18, 22 March 2011 (EDT)
I suspect that was a human spammer, which CAPTCHAs can't help with. —Pathoschild 13:10:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Probably, and he didn't come back. Yann 13:54, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

Something wrong with preview resolutions?

Can you see clearly the preview images like this one?. I see every pixel and have to click on the image to see it correctly, is it the same for you? --Zephyrus 19:40, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

Hi Zephyrus. It looks like there was an error when the thumbnail was originally created and cached. Forcing MediaWiki to generate a new thumbnail (by adding ?action=purge to the URL) fixed the image. —Pathoschild 00:20:34, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much Pathoschild, is it like that for everybody's thumbnails or is it on my computer only? --Zephyrus 05:49, 24 March 2011 (EDT)
The broken thumbnail appeared for everyone. When MediaWiki creates a new thumbnail for someone, it saves the file so it doesn't need to recreate it in the future. The ?action=purge parameter forces it to regenerate that thumbnail file. —Pathoschild 13:55:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I have done purges of all the Metamorphose files; it seemed to work but today the broken thumbnails seem to have come back. --Zephyrus 08:48, 29 March 2011 (EDT)
J’avais aujourd’hui la même chose que toi, et j’ai purgé le cache sur commons et ici. Marc 12:44, 29 March 2011 (EDT)
Does this only happen to images from Commons? —Pathoschild 06:04:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you Marc and Pathoschild. I haven't noticed anything broken except on Common's images until now. Four of them were still broken today in the morning. So I follow Marc's instructions and purge them all both on Wikilivres and on Commons. I am doing this now and will check if everything is all right within a few hours. --Zephyrus 02:21, 30 March 2011 (EDT)
There is a problem with the thumbnail server of Commons. It may take one or two days to fix it. Yann 11:36, 30 March 2011 (EDT)
Good news, thank you Yann. --Zephyrus 11:58, 30 March 2011 (EDT)
Tonight half the thumbnails are broken again, I have purged them once more both here and on Commons. They seem to be brighter and of better quality than before. I hope it will be possible to solve the thumbnails'problem too. --Zephyrus 18:54, 31 March 2011 (EDT)
Tried again tonight, this time I have come back to the gallery, after each purge, via the What-links-here special page: I don't know if it can make a difference. --Zephyrus 19:03, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

Scope of project

What are the criteria for uploading original texts here? Does a work have to be previously published to be included here? Or is there any other specific criteria? Nahum 23:58, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

All is here. Marc 05:55, 5 April 2011 (EDT)
When checking Special:DeadendPages, I see Traduction automatique resembling an article for French Wikipedia while there are more. As I consider them like out of scope, should we really keep them here?--Jusjih 09:22, 5 April 2011 (EDT)
For what reason exactly do you think we shouldn't keep it ? Marc
Is there another wiki where non previously published texts would be more suited? On Wikia maybe? I would like to be as inclusive as possible, but these texts are not really within the aim of this project. Yann 06:34, 6 April 2011 (EDT)
It could be useful to add a page in Category:Help about this aim. Marc 10:31, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
Why can French Wikipedia not host the encyclopedic pages hosted here?--Jusjih 12:18, 10 April 2011 (EDT)
I will try to move these articles to Wikipedia. Then they could be deleted here once they have been accepted there. Yann 03:02, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
It seems that the pages I added there have been kept. Yann 10:25, 6 September 2011 (EDT)

Templates NewWorks and NewAuthors

What is the procedure for updating these templates? Do I have to request admin action every time? if so, please note new authors William Henry Davies amd Herbert Asquith. Thanks.--Poetlister 04:20, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

Done.--Jusjih 09:22, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

Thanks, Jusjih. I have now created Lascelles Abercrombie so could someone please add him. Thanks.--Poetlister 12:29, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

Done. --Zephyrus 19:27, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

Sorry to be a bother. I have now created Frederic Edward Weatherly so could someone please add him. Thanks.--Poetlister 13:34, 5 September 2011 (EDT)

Done. Yann 10:23, 6 September 2011 (EDT)

Threath from Gallimard sent to Wikilivres service provider

Hello,

Gallimard sent a threath to Wikilivres service provider. See File:Injonction de Gallimard.pdf. So please make sure that the documents you publish here are in the public domain in Canada. We are watched. Thanks, Yann 03:48, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

How about banning all "public" manifestos in other than English and French without credible copyright licenses? Having banned Chinese ones here, even English and French ones should be tolerated only in case-by-case situations.--Jusjih 07:12, 13 November 2011 (EST)

Subtle spam

This edit from User:MichaelRide was a spamlink, cleverly disguised so as not to be noticeable. I have reverted it, but please be on the look-out for similar edits.--Poetlister 17:31, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

I blocked this account. Thanks for your help, Yann 14:28, 13 November 2011 (EST)

Importing pages

Hello,

I added the possibility to import pages directly from Wikisource, Commons and Wikipedia. One needs to be autoconfirmed (5 days and 30 edits). I also added Latin (la) as interwiki. Best regards, Yann 15:06, 13 November 2011 (EST)

Je crois que cela ne fonctionne pas depuis Wikisource francophone. Marc 05:23, 23 February 2012 (EST)

Spam

These tools (thanks, Marc, for the link) these tools would be useful, don’t you think so? I didn’t know what to add exactly to the spam blacklist: IP addresses? product name touted? For now I report blockages with {{blocked}}, is it enough? --Zephyrus 03:28, 8 December 2011 (EST)

In my experience, there is little point in blocking an IP as these spammers have a copious supply and rarely re-use an IP.--Poetlister 13:18, 10 December 2011 (EST)

Another new author

Happy new year. Please add Eden Phillpotts to the new authors template.--Poetlister 08:18, 1 January 2012 (EST)

Done. Happy new year. Marc 09:33, 1 January 2012 (EST)

Planning to import images affected by the URAA

Hi all, in the wake of the recent US Supreme Court on the URAA, many files on WMF projects are likely to be deleted because they are in copyright in the US. I think Wikilivres would be a great place to re-upload any that are in the public domain in Canada (which is most of them). I'm also considering a Toolserver tool to help move files from WMF projects to Wikilivres. Let me know if you have any thoughts or objections. Dcoetzee 06:00, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Great idea. A tool might be most useful. Thanks for your help, Yann 08:45, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Financial help needed

Hello,

There is a bill of 100 US$ overdue. Could you make a small donation via Paypal? Your help is needed. Thanks, Yann 08:47, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Thank you for the help, but there is still a bill of 80 US$ overdue. Yann 15:10, 25 January 2012 (EST)
The whole due bill was paid. Thanks a lot for your help! Yann 01:32, 27 January 2012 (EST)
Est-ce qu’il s’agit d’un dépassement du quota de bande passante ? Marc 10:49, 31 January 2012 (EST)
Non, c'est une partie de la facture du mois dernier. Yann 12:03, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Canada's Public Domain

hotcat

please could somebody import "hotcat" from wikimedia?

it would make organizing files SO much faster & easier (& organizing is my "thing")

Lx 121 14:58, 23 February 2012 (EST)

-- BUGREPORT: when i tried to post this, it's telling me that i have included external links in the post (o__0!?), & giving me a "skill-testing question" to proove that i'm not a bot. 0__o
Done. Marc 15:43, 23 February 2012 (EST)
wonderful! merci bien ^__^ Lx 121 11:48, 25 February 2012 (EST)

Another new author

Please add Walter de la Mare to the new authors template.--Poetlister 02:41, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Done. --Zephyrus 17:53, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

NC licences

While I don't have any strong feeling against NC licences in general, I think that they should be used sparingly. They should primariily be for entering the works of outsiders to the community who can eventually be convinced that they are probably not enforceable. One place where they should be strongly discouraged comes when our own editors apply it to their own works. Currently, User:Juggler2005 is adding the Russian translation of a PD English langage work, and claiming his own NC licence. I don't think that this is a valid way of doing things since it means adding restrictions to a work which would not otherwise have them. Eclecticology 13:22, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

By the way the translation of this work Людоеды из Цаво (Паттерсон) of Patterson was made by User:Juggler2005, so, I think, the NC licence is quite appropriate. Dmitrismirnov
In my view this is exactly what makes it inappropriate. Eclecticology 15:26, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Please make it clear what is wrong with it in your point of view. I do not understand. Dmitrismirnov 16:24, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

If someone makes a fresh translation of any work, even one in PD, they have copyright in their translation. We could not put it on here without the author's consent. If the author does consent, surely he can specify an NC licence if he wishes. Or is it suggested that we should refuse to host such works?--Poetlister 16:30, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

It all has to do with the nature of free culture, and making works freely available to everyone to do with as they please without restriction. Admittedly most people are going to ignore NC and ND restrictions anyway, and few owners are going to see a commercial value big enough to make pursuit of infringers worth pursuing. Remember too that new translations, unlike translations from external sources can still be mercilessly edited without needing to maintain an integral link with that source. A wiki translation will have the copyright shared with whoever wishes to improve it. So yes we should refuse to host works where our editor wants to insist on an NC or ND licence. Eclecticology 17:50, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Sorry, I do not agree. Dmitrismirnov 03:01, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
I second Dmitrismirnov. Free culture means that information is made freely available. That does not have to extend to giving commercial organisations the right to profit from your freely given work. And ND can be dangerous because it gives others the right to mutilate and falsify your work as they wish, while still having it attributed basically to you. And yes, on a wiki people can amend your work. They can give any licence they like to their own work, but whatever remains of your work still has the licence you gave.--Poetlister 17:41, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
This site does allow works with any credible licenses, including non-commercial and/or non-derivative licenses, so re-users have to check what they may or may not do downstream.--Jusjih 22:38, 9 April 2012 (EDT)

Changes in the site

Hello,

As I said earlier, I am going to transfer the management of Wikilivres to other people. It seems that an agreement is going to be reached soon. What will probably happen is that the site will be transfered to wikilivres.ca, with (now or later?) a redirection from wikilivres.info (currently there is a redirection from wikilivres.ca). The new site will not accept non-commercial or non-derivative (NC or ND) content, which should be moved to another site. I suggest that a new site should be created on Wikia for NC and ND content (or another hosting possibility if you have better suggestions).

Regards, Yann 13:12, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

As Wikia seems to be hosted in the USA, not accepting non-commercial or non-derivative content at wikilivres.ca may mean that those tolerated with template:Manifesto will have to be deleted, while Canada and the USA have different copyright laws.--Jusjih 11:08, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
Well, it is quite unexpected and rather unpleasant news. It will be hard to make all these changes... And what about PD = Life + 50 years? Dmitrismirnov 13:11, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
The current registration of the wikilivres.info domain is through GoDaddy. In my mind this in itself creates concerns about the exercise of US law over .info domains. A .ca domain will give more strength to the life + 50 rule. Eclecticology 14:30, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Franchement déçu par ces informations au compte-goutte et par le manque de considération à l’égard de ceux qui ont publié ici des textes, dont de nombreux textes sous licence non commerciale. Marc [Frankly disappointed with this information in dribs and drabs and the lack of consideration towards those who have posted here texts, including many texts in non-commercial license. Google-translation]

Once hosting issues are resolved, I would be quite happy to copy the entire database of wikilivres.info to wikilivres.ca, leaving the former intact. One cannot expect, however, that Yann will continue to accept financial responsibility for the .info site. Those who want to keep it going in its present form would be able to do so, as long as they are willing to pay for it. Eclecticology 18:21, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
Merci de supprimer mon compte de cette base de données. En l’absence d’informations, il est hors de question que mon pseudo apparaîsse. Marc 03:21, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

categorization

user:marc has erased ALL of my work @ categorization, without explanation, or justification.

i am seeking to understand why he has done this, & whether his action is unilateral, or the result of a community decision, or an instruction by the site administrator.

Lx 121 21:09, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Ce que tu as fait était absurde, comme je te l’ai déjà dit non-unilatéralement, mais il semble que ton besoin de délation soit plus fort. Marc 03:23, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

To the Admins

Please DO NOT start deleting NC material from the .ca version without consulting with those who input it!!! It is quite possible that in the most cases we will just delete ONLY THE NOTICES about NC and leave these materials under FREE Licences. Dmitrismirnov 19:39, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

Thank you. My plans were to give a 30-day notice befor deleting any specific group of pages. There are a lot of them, so I would want to approach this in an orderly mmanner. I see that you have started removing the tags from the Aesop pages. Could you please wait a few days before continuing. The file transfers are curently in process, and once this is done this could be co-ordinated more easily. I expect to preserve all admin rights on the new site. Eclecticology 20:11, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

Wikilivres.ca

The site wikilivres.ca is now live. New contributions should go there. Eclecticology 00:23, 10 May 2012 (EDT)

It is not clear for me and other users what is happened to the site. Why NC and ND licenses introduced by Yann were abolished? There is no satisfactory explanation. Dmitrismirnov 05:18, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
I am not completely gone yet. ;o) As I announced already some time ago, I can't assure the maintenance of this site anymore. Eclecticology offered to take charge of it, and I am most thankful to him for that. The new site is hosted by Wikimedia Canada. It was also discussed that non-commercial would be restricted in the new site. Probably Eclecticology can give a detailed explanation. Currently I have a slow and intermittent connection, and I am not able to do much. It is quite easy to find a free hosting for non commercial texts. This can be anywhere in the world. I propose that if you want to keep non-commercial texts, either you take the old site in charge, or you find a free or cheap hosting as you like. The easiest is probably to open a site on Wikia. Phe, Alan, and Pathoschild have shell access, and can help to move the content. The old site will be closed after a few weeks, and the domain will be redirected to the new site. Regards, Yann 09:58, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
But this changes a lot in the whole concept of the site. The most of the pages the result of hard and long work will be inevitably deleted. This is a great pain for many of us. And for readers as well. Yann, thank you for everything. You had a great idea. Pity that it is collapsed. It will be hard without you here. Dmitrismirnov 10:24, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
Yann isn’t gone, then I am very happy :)
I propose to create several lists: texts that can go to Wikilivres.ca (nearly all of them); texts that we can find in other places already (Kline’s and Swinnen’s texts are not lost, they can be found in many places); texts that will be lost if we delete them are the only ones which make a real loss, so thank you very very much to all who help rescuing them! --Zephyrus 10:44, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
I know that Dmitri is already working hard to remove the NC tags where that solution is appropriate. That, as Zephyrus says, covers nearly all of them. I have never been a supporter of speedy deletes except for the case of obvious stupidities, spam and vandalism. Where I would want an NC page deleted, I would prefer to give a 30-day notice that clearly identifies the pages I am talkking about. Eclecticology 18:32, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

Although my efforts are now devoted to the new site, I do follow "Recent changes" looking for newbies who accidentally wandered onto this site, and following discussions on this page. It's important to maintain contact with those who have spent years working with this site.

I have no difficulty with this wikilivres.info remaining alive in parallel with the wikilivres.ca as long as there are people willing to pay for and manage it. I will only seek control of the domain after it has ceased to operate.

I understand that the financial obligations for Yann have been heavy since his move to India, and that he has sought assistance about this on a number of occasions. I don't know what help he received from others. It's only in the past year that it became clear that the future of the site was at risk. Continued Canadian would have clear legal advantages. Canada is an advanced country with goood internet connections, and where the duration of copyrights is still based on the life of the author plus fifty years. These were the premises for our earliest informal discussions. I also didn't want to be stuck holding the financial bag and face the same problems in a few more years. It was also important that I have technical support. I would not personally have had the technical knowledge needed for transferring the site.

When this was first raised at a meeting of the Wikimedia Canada there was a general concern about having non-commercial licences, with some feeling that there should be none at all. This became a condition for Wikimedia Canada support. Some there wanted it all removed within three months; given the quantity of material involved I argued that a year would be more realistic. it is still possible that there will still be some after that time, but that it will be more defensible. It may surprise some here that in these discussions I wss the one willing to accept a relatively greater degree of NC licences. The argument also applies to ND licensed pages, but they are considerably fewer. Once a Canadian understanding was reached, and the technical expertise was in place we were able to act very quickly. My previous thread on this page was primarily intended to test opinion; the extensive opposition received at that point was a warning that I would need to work to minimize antagonism.

I am not a lawyer, but a full decade of exposure to Wikimedia and its projects have made me keenly aware of the copyright environment, and given me greater confidence for walking closer to the edge of that cliff. The notion of non-commercial licences is not a part of public law, but a part of the prrivate law as defined by the Creative Commons organisation. A licence with a non-commercial restriction is less free than one without, and even that is less free than material in the public domain. For me to accept non-commercial licences I would need too understand that the effect was to make the material more free than it previously was. Applying it to material from government websites is one step in making that material more free. Putting an NC tag on a translation from material that was previously in the public domain does the opposite. I can perfectly understand where and why individuals do not want profit-making corporations to make money on the back of their work, but I think that they are unrealistic in their belief that an NC licence will be effective in accomplishing that end. Who among these individuals will knoow what to do when his licence is infringed?

I am open to answering further questions. Eclecticology 18:16, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

Closing

Hello,

Wikilivres.info will be closed by June 6th, 2012. Before that date everything which you want to keep should be copied to wikilivres.ca or another site. Then the domain will be redirected to the new site. Best regards, Yann 23:27, 19 May 2012 (EDT)

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